I'm married. I didn't get married until I was 38. We've been married ... it will be 13 years this October. We are childless by choice. If something happens and my marriage ends, I don't think I'll be looking to marry ever again. It's too much extra work. I do a lot--more than he does on a lot of things. But I also know he loves me, respects me, and we're good friends, too. A lot of the reasons women don't want to marry aren't a problem in my relationship. That said, I think I got very lucky. Waiting helped. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I had a clue what I wanted out of life for myself. That changes over time, too, but in my 20s what I thought I wanted wouldn't have made me happy in my 40s. I also have no desire to date again.
I had a similar trajectory as you and my husband passed away two years ago. I am not planning on marrying again. I was just starting to think about dating again but in light of recent events will be avoiding the apps because I don’t want to have to continuously screen out MAGA types
Waiting is KEY. Too many women rush in in our twenties, pressured because “everyone else is coupled!” and society pressures us. But it is SO worth it to FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE on your own so that you know what you want, need, and what you won’t pit up with. And this way, you are financially secure and don’t need someone to “provide” for you, which takes a lot of weight off.
I am still deliriously in love with my partner. We started dating in 2018 as widowed mom of three and soon to be divorced/no kids. He moved in with covid and the joy he shares with all of us made it as delightful as it could be. Imaging pod working with your favorite people and ordering in lunch together. That was us, the middle schoolers, and the high school junior on zoom school and work.
We have financial reasons to hold off getting married, but we’ve always had the idea in the back of our minds as something we could celebrate someday. We chatted about it recently, and I said I didn’t want to get married under this administration and he said of course not, who would. (He’s a raging feminist too.) So thanks to the culture that made the 47 felon administration possible, I have now put that potential happiness on indefinite hold. This administration poisons everything.
And yeah I know romantic love is the bs they sold women to keep us in domestic servitude. I get that. And the whole Save act thing for women who’ve changed their names not being able to vote? Please y’all change your names back or get an amended birth certificate now.
(My last name indicates a religion I’m not, is 11 letters long, and starts with B. His last name is 4 letters. We joke I dated him for the last name alone.)
The first time I got exterior validation for living my life single wasn’t until I was in my early 50s, and multiple older women, mostly widows, began to confide they had boyfriends but they never let the men move in anymore. They actively warned me against it, “Dont let him get his feet under your (kitchen) table”. They warned against the sly ways men would try to surreptitiously move in, scheduling date night for a night a blizzard was due for example. The older women enjoyed going on trips and going to concerts, etc, with men, but they were damned well not going to be wives again. After a lifetime of relentless social pressure to be a wife, to hope for ‘the one’, to be ashamed of being single, it was such a goddamned relief.
"...multiple older women, mostly widows, began to confide they had boyfriends but they never let the men move in anymore..." One of my mother's widowed friends does not even bother to date because she said that all the men want 'a nurse or a purse' and she's not interested in being either. She is a hoot and is having adventures all of the time and has an adorable dog! She is in her early 80's.
I was married at 22 and I got EXTRAORDINARLY lucky. He shares chores, is not a jerk, is kind and patient and all the things. I love him so much. We have been married 23 years. If anything happens to him or our marriage, I am never getting married again. Nope. And the older I get, the more I think that dating will be off the table too. Men are too unpredictable.
I’m a divorced cis female with two kids who has been in an absolutely delightful partnership with a divorced cis dad with four kids for 6 years. We have absolutely no desire to get married. Someone’s kids would have to switch schools, friend groups, and activities since we live on opposite ends of town. No bueno! Why force our children into a situation where someone would end up woefully unhappy? We each have our own house and pay our own bills, we’re able to step up for each other in the ways we lack (him: fixing EVERYTHING 😍, me: providing emotional “mom” support to his four since their mom is no longer in the picture). We don’t have to be everything to each other and we’re perfectly happy on our own, and our relationship is a happy bonus to our lives, NOT our whole lives. We also share a dog who joyfully roams between both our houses (Papa is Hooman #1 though!)
I think the phrase "giving up" is apt for two reasons. To give up on a culture where your health, your bodies are a volleyball batted around by old white men, where at worst you're slaves and at best underpaid understudies, where verbal and physical aggression and abuse are a daily occurrence and you're accused of frigidity for not wanting to roll around in the mud like pigs, is the best response. And not giving down to this awfulness, instead giving up into yourself, your freedom, your safety, is both courageous and inspiring.
Articles like this are VITAL. I have been married since 1987 to the same man. I love my husband and my two sons, and because I love them I can’t write about all the things I would do differently if the world of the early 1980’s had been different. For one thing, I would have dated a lot more people before settling down. Because I love my husband, even though I understand his flaws and know how to describe them, I also know that it would hurt him more than anything else for me to say those things. He isn’t a bad man but he is definitely a product of a bad system. (I will say that every day I want to punch his parents until their noses bleed.) Most men are like my husband; they were never given the chance to be anything else. It is not, however, women’s job or responsibility to fix them. Maybe some day I will be able to tell my story. I hope so. Until that happens, other women need to tell theirs loudly and proudly.
You sound like you need a nom de plume. It has been the savior of many female writers. You could call yourself George, for instance. Tell your stories, if even to yourself.
I do tell them to myself; I just don’t write them down. Maybe I’ll created a document and type them out for later. I do think it’s vital that more women tell the stories of the flaws in their own marriages, even mostly successful ones. All we’ve got now are cheerleaders for monogamy describing unjust sacrifices by women as either noble or trivial. (The trivial part is when they suggest that being responsible for the entire family’s social life is not significant labor unfairly assigned to women.)
My marriage was mostly fine, but I am so much happier, better rested, more successful, and more at peace with myself since I became single again. And now that I've had the experience of being married, I have no interest in pursuing it again.
I’ve told my partner several times that if something were to happen that would find me single once more? I’m never dating again. He makes me feel happy and safe, I adore our life together, I have zero qualms or regrets, but I’m also perfectly content on my own + do not *want* to endure a lot of the….. “discourse” around relationship expectations, extended family (I hit the JACKPOT with my in-laws), raising children/stepchildren, etc etc etc. The older I get, the more I just want to be left ALONE.
(Hi, it’s Thursday and I’m really glad that Lyz is taking vacation but I also miss chatting with all of you today & hope you’re taking care of yourselves amid *gestures vaguely)
I’m married 43 years, and it’s…complicated. Couples therapy quelled my rage because I finally realized my anger was justified. It helped my husband, who has always considered himself a feminist…so long as he can hire a maid to do his part of the housework. I’m experiencing his late in life feminist awakening. It’s wonderful and aggravating in equal measure, because he THOUGHT he was feminist simply because he married an opinionated talkative confident woman. I’m a lawyer and I’m adapted to a mostly male world. Finally he sees how the world looks to me. Oddly, the fact that it has taken so long makes me resent his prior refusal to look up from his own concerns. It will corrode your soul to make comparisons, so I do my best to revel in his willingness to change. He is my person, as complicated and aggravating as he is, and this journey of his is evidence that he is trying because of me. That’s love.
I hear you. My husband thought for years that he wasn’t a product of white male privilege because he wasn’t “further along” in life. But it’s been so gratifying to watch his eyes open over the last five years. I’m careful to show him what he doesn’t have to deal with that I do. And when stories on TV are biased that he never noticed before. Small things, but still. I’m proud of him.
One marriage was enough. I'm 51 and I was divorced in 2013 and have had enough only dates to give me fodder for a stand-up set.
I don't have the energy to commit to a romantic relationship. I've got 4 kids, 2 jobs, serve on the board of directors for a local organization and a state organization, volunteer in my community, walk my dog, maintain my house and yard, and fight the patriarchy. My life is full-to-bursting. Anyone I'd date would come after all of the things I want and do. Because dating isn't a need like the other parts of my life -- it's a "want-ish."
I like the life I've created for myself and my kids. It's a good one!
I'm also hard to date because I don't NEED anyone or anything. I've found that even the men who say they want independent, strong women are hard-wired to try to help in situations and react negativity to a woman saying, "Nope - I've got it!" From personal experience, they feel that simply by existing as a competent adult we're making them feel badly about their capabilities. Some recognize it and withdraw licking wounds and others try to dominate -- which never goes well for them.
This is why I write this content. So you can hear these conversations. I think they’re important for all people MEN especially. And why would you think that just because this centers women’s voices it isn’t designed for you?
"I love all the male-identifying friends in my running groups, my brothers, my neighbors, writers I know and love, who offer me advice and friendship."
I was hoping you would also consider male subscribers as something positive in your life.
I apologize if that seems to be a bit of an overreach.
And I'm terrible at plumbing. In fact, I hate plumbing.
Jesus, this has been irritating me for a few hours. No one has forgotten men for the entirety of human civilization. Lyz' post today isn't going to change the fact that we will all continue to think about men. The idea that a woman has to be reminded to think about men (won't someone think of the poor men!?), is just like, what is wrong with you? Can a woman have her own thoughts in her own Substack without ALSO making sure that men's feelings are accounted for and represented? Should she feel vaguely threatened by "all the men" who subscribe, who might withdraw their eyeballs and dollars if Lyz doesn't make sure they're included? Do better, dude.
"I love all the male-identifying friends in my running groups, my brothers, my neighbors, writers I know and love, who offer me advice and friendship."
I was hoping you would also consider male subscribers as something positive in your life.
I apologize if that seems to be a bit of an overreach.
And I'm terrible at plumbing. In fact, I hate plumbing.
Actually (and I’m a dyed in the wool feminist), I read Daves’s comment not as a criticism, but rather that he was wanting to be seen as a supportive male reader. Any men reading Lyz’s articles are welcome as I see it. An incel article appeared in my feed today, and believe me, there are much worse things then men wanting to be seen as humans in relationships.
I’m almost 62. I’ve been married over 40 years, with my husband since I was 19. He’s my lobster (IYKYK), but i would absolutely not get married again if I were to find myself single.
I can honestly say I’ve been mostly happily married for 18 years. Is it a perfect marriage? Heck no. We’re two flawed individuals who do the best we can. Together though we are a highly compatible couple. We met and married in our mid-40s and now are happily retired. He waits on me hand and foot as I’m chronically ill. He’s my best friend and my person. I can’t imagine life without him.
Yes, yes, yes. I divorced at 29 and was single for 22 years. The only reason I am partnered now is, as my lesbian co-worker says, “your husband is a lesbian in a man’s body” 😂 But actually, what he is, is a creative who stayed home with his kids and followed his career ladder ex-wife around the country because she made more money. So, he gets it. The interesting and sad part is his ex-wife thought that by “acting the man” she was a feminist…but like Clarence Thomas and white supremacy, she just reversed roles. That doesn’t work either, sisters!
I'm increasingly, terrifyingly convinced that above all else, this development is what's driving the current political administration. All the jokes about "divorced dad energy" aside, this article really drove it home. They are doing this because they think that it will result in women needing them more. Women can be freer now and they hate it so much.
I'm married. I didn't get married until I was 38. We've been married ... it will be 13 years this October. We are childless by choice. If something happens and my marriage ends, I don't think I'll be looking to marry ever again. It's too much extra work. I do a lot--more than he does on a lot of things. But I also know he loves me, respects me, and we're good friends, too. A lot of the reasons women don't want to marry aren't a problem in my relationship. That said, I think I got very lucky. Waiting helped. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I had a clue what I wanted out of life for myself. That changes over time, too, but in my 20s what I thought I wanted wouldn't have made me happy in my 40s. I also have no desire to date again.
I had a similar trajectory as you and my husband passed away two years ago. I am not planning on marrying again. I was just starting to think about dating again but in light of recent events will be avoiding the apps because I don’t want to have to continuously screen out MAGA types
Waiting is KEY. Too many women rush in in our twenties, pressured because “everyone else is coupled!” and society pressures us. But it is SO worth it to FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE on your own so that you know what you want, need, and what you won’t pit up with. And this way, you are financially secure and don’t need someone to “provide” for you, which takes a lot of weight off.
Marriage as an option rather than by default is a positive development.
I am still deliriously in love with my partner. We started dating in 2018 as widowed mom of three and soon to be divorced/no kids. He moved in with covid and the joy he shares with all of us made it as delightful as it could be. Imaging pod working with your favorite people and ordering in lunch together. That was us, the middle schoolers, and the high school junior on zoom school and work.
We have financial reasons to hold off getting married, but we’ve always had the idea in the back of our minds as something we could celebrate someday. We chatted about it recently, and I said I didn’t want to get married under this administration and he said of course not, who would. (He’s a raging feminist too.) So thanks to the culture that made the 47 felon administration possible, I have now put that potential happiness on indefinite hold. This administration poisons everything.
And yeah I know romantic love is the bs they sold women to keep us in domestic servitude. I get that. And the whole Save act thing for women who’ve changed their names not being able to vote? Please y’all change your names back or get an amended birth certificate now.
(My last name indicates a religion I’m not, is 11 letters long, and starts with B. His last name is 4 letters. We joke I dated him for the last name alone.)
The first time I got exterior validation for living my life single wasn’t until I was in my early 50s, and multiple older women, mostly widows, began to confide they had boyfriends but they never let the men move in anymore. They actively warned me against it, “Dont let him get his feet under your (kitchen) table”. They warned against the sly ways men would try to surreptitiously move in, scheduling date night for a night a blizzard was due for example. The older women enjoyed going on trips and going to concerts, etc, with men, but they were damned well not going to be wives again. After a lifetime of relentless social pressure to be a wife, to hope for ‘the one’, to be ashamed of being single, it was such a goddamned relief.
"...multiple older women, mostly widows, began to confide they had boyfriends but they never let the men move in anymore..." One of my mother's widowed friends does not even bother to date because she said that all the men want 'a nurse or a purse' and she's not interested in being either. She is a hoot and is having adventures all of the time and has an adorable dog! She is in her early 80's.
I was married at 22 and I got EXTRAORDINARLY lucky. He shares chores, is not a jerk, is kind and patient and all the things. I love him so much. We have been married 23 years. If anything happens to him or our marriage, I am never getting married again. Nope. And the older I get, the more I think that dating will be off the table too. Men are too unpredictable.
I’m a divorced cis female with two kids who has been in an absolutely delightful partnership with a divorced cis dad with four kids for 6 years. We have absolutely no desire to get married. Someone’s kids would have to switch schools, friend groups, and activities since we live on opposite ends of town. No bueno! Why force our children into a situation where someone would end up woefully unhappy? We each have our own house and pay our own bills, we’re able to step up for each other in the ways we lack (him: fixing EVERYTHING 😍, me: providing emotional “mom” support to his four since their mom is no longer in the picture). We don’t have to be everything to each other and we’re perfectly happy on our own, and our relationship is a happy bonus to our lives, NOT our whole lives. We also share a dog who joyfully roams between both our houses (Papa is Hooman #1 though!)
I think the phrase "giving up" is apt for two reasons. To give up on a culture where your health, your bodies are a volleyball batted around by old white men, where at worst you're slaves and at best underpaid understudies, where verbal and physical aggression and abuse are a daily occurrence and you're accused of frigidity for not wanting to roll around in the mud like pigs, is the best response. And not giving down to this awfulness, instead giving up into yourself, your freedom, your safety, is both courageous and inspiring.
Articles like this are VITAL. I have been married since 1987 to the same man. I love my husband and my two sons, and because I love them I can’t write about all the things I would do differently if the world of the early 1980’s had been different. For one thing, I would have dated a lot more people before settling down. Because I love my husband, even though I understand his flaws and know how to describe them, I also know that it would hurt him more than anything else for me to say those things. He isn’t a bad man but he is definitely a product of a bad system. (I will say that every day I want to punch his parents until their noses bleed.) Most men are like my husband; they were never given the chance to be anything else. It is not, however, women’s job or responsibility to fix them. Maybe some day I will be able to tell my story. I hope so. Until that happens, other women need to tell theirs loudly and proudly.
You sound like you need a nom de plume. It has been the savior of many female writers. You could call yourself George, for instance. Tell your stories, if even to yourself.
I do tell them to myself; I just don’t write them down. Maybe I’ll created a document and type them out for later. I do think it’s vital that more women tell the stories of the flaws in their own marriages, even mostly successful ones. All we’ve got now are cheerleaders for monogamy describing unjust sacrifices by women as either noble or trivial. (The trivial part is when they suggest that being responsible for the entire family’s social life is not significant labor unfairly assigned to women.)
My ex is also a product of his generation. It's no excuse to keep being a selfish man-child who won't heal and do better, so I left.
My marriage was mostly fine, but I am so much happier, better rested, more successful, and more at peace with myself since I became single again. And now that I've had the experience of being married, I have no interest in pursuing it again.
I’ve told my partner several times that if something were to happen that would find me single once more? I’m never dating again. He makes me feel happy and safe, I adore our life together, I have zero qualms or regrets, but I’m also perfectly content on my own + do not *want* to endure a lot of the….. “discourse” around relationship expectations, extended family (I hit the JACKPOT with my in-laws), raising children/stepchildren, etc etc etc. The older I get, the more I just want to be left ALONE.
(Hi, it’s Thursday and I’m really glad that Lyz is taking vacation but I also miss chatting with all of you today & hope you’re taking care of yourselves amid *gestures vaguely)
Thanks for the check in. Same and same... :) Broken hearts everywhere
I’m married 43 years, and it’s…complicated. Couples therapy quelled my rage because I finally realized my anger was justified. It helped my husband, who has always considered himself a feminist…so long as he can hire a maid to do his part of the housework. I’m experiencing his late in life feminist awakening. It’s wonderful and aggravating in equal measure, because he THOUGHT he was feminist simply because he married an opinionated talkative confident woman. I’m a lawyer and I’m adapted to a mostly male world. Finally he sees how the world looks to me. Oddly, the fact that it has taken so long makes me resent his prior refusal to look up from his own concerns. It will corrode your soul to make comparisons, so I do my best to revel in his willingness to change. He is my person, as complicated and aggravating as he is, and this journey of his is evidence that he is trying because of me. That’s love.
I hear you. My husband thought for years that he wasn’t a product of white male privilege because he wasn’t “further along” in life. But it’s been so gratifying to watch his eyes open over the last five years. I’m careful to show him what he doesn’t have to deal with that I do. And when stories on TV are biased that he never noticed before. Small things, but still. I’m proud of him.
One marriage was enough. I'm 51 and I was divorced in 2013 and have had enough only dates to give me fodder for a stand-up set.
I don't have the energy to commit to a romantic relationship. I've got 4 kids, 2 jobs, serve on the board of directors for a local organization and a state organization, volunteer in my community, walk my dog, maintain my house and yard, and fight the patriarchy. My life is full-to-bursting. Anyone I'd date would come after all of the things I want and do. Because dating isn't a need like the other parts of my life -- it's a "want-ish."
I like the life I've created for myself and my kids. It's a good one!
I'm also hard to date because I don't NEED anyone or anything. I've found that even the men who say they want independent, strong women are hard-wired to try to help in situations and react negativity to a woman saying, "Nope - I've got it!" From personal experience, they feel that simply by existing as a competent adult we're making them feel badly about their capabilities. Some recognize it and withdraw licking wounds and others try to dominate -- which never goes well for them.
Don't forget all the men that subscribe to your newsletter.
This is why I write this content. So you can hear these conversations. I think they’re important for all people MEN especially. And why would you think that just because this centers women’s voices it isn’t designed for you?
I believe my comment has been misconstrued.
It was meant as a response to this sentence:
"I love all the male-identifying friends in my running groups, my brothers, my neighbors, writers I know and love, who offer me advice and friendship."
I was hoping you would also consider male subscribers as something positive in your life.
I apologize if that seems to be a bit of an overreach.
And I'm terrible at plumbing. In fact, I hate plumbing.
Jesus, this has been irritating me for a few hours. No one has forgotten men for the entirety of human civilization. Lyz' post today isn't going to change the fact that we will all continue to think about men. The idea that a woman has to be reminded to think about men (won't someone think of the poor men!?), is just like, what is wrong with you? Can a woman have her own thoughts in her own Substack without ALSO making sure that men's feelings are accounted for and represented? Should she feel vaguely threatened by "all the men" who subscribe, who might withdraw their eyeballs and dollars if Lyz doesn't make sure they're included? Do better, dude.
I believe my comment has been misconstrued.
It was meant as a response to this sentence:
"I love all the male-identifying friends in my running groups, my brothers, my neighbors, writers I know and love, who offer me advice and friendship."
I was hoping you would also consider male subscribers as something positive in your life.
I apologize if that seems to be a bit of an overreach.
And I'm terrible at plumbing. In fact, I hate plumbing.
Actually (and I’m a dyed in the wool feminist), I read Daves’s comment not as a criticism, but rather that he was wanting to be seen as a supportive male reader. Any men reading Lyz’s articles are welcome as I see it. An incel article appeared in my feed today, and believe me, there are much worse things then men wanting to be seen as humans in relationships.
I’m almost 62. I’ve been married over 40 years, with my husband since I was 19. He’s my lobster (IYKYK), but i would absolutely not get married again if I were to find myself single.
I can honestly say I’ve been mostly happily married for 18 years. Is it a perfect marriage? Heck no. We’re two flawed individuals who do the best we can. Together though we are a highly compatible couple. We met and married in our mid-40s and now are happily retired. He waits on me hand and foot as I’m chronically ill. He’s my best friend and my person. I can’t imagine life without him.
Yes, yes, yes. I divorced at 29 and was single for 22 years. The only reason I am partnered now is, as my lesbian co-worker says, “your husband is a lesbian in a man’s body” 😂 But actually, what he is, is a creative who stayed home with his kids and followed his career ladder ex-wife around the country because she made more money. So, he gets it. The interesting and sad part is his ex-wife thought that by “acting the man” she was a feminist…but like Clarence Thomas and white supremacy, she just reversed roles. That doesn’t work either, sisters!
I'm increasingly, terrifyingly convinced that above all else, this development is what's driving the current political administration. All the jokes about "divorced dad energy" aside, this article really drove it home. They are doing this because they think that it will result in women needing them more. Women can be freer now and they hate it so much.
https://www.garbageday.email/p/crashing-the-economy-because-you-hate-tiktok-women