I once (2007) met a gentleman who claimed to be one of the founders of Match.com. I was chatting (about wine) with his girlfriend at a wine tasting; he spotted me and joined our conversation. After introductions, I asked him if they met online. He stepped back with a disgusted look and exclaimed "God no!" They both laughed.
I met my now ex-husband when he searched AOL profiles back in the day and then IM'd me (this makes me 97 years old, clearly). This only proves that a man needs to be ready for a relationship and when he is he'll go on the hunt and do what it takes. A great friend is now married (with two adorable babies) to what seems like an AMAZING catch, and her husband's been on TWO first dates in his whole life: one with his first wife and now one with my friend, his second wife, who he met through an expensive matchmaker. Either he's incredibly selective or incredibly lucky. I opted out of dating at least a year back because of the unsolicited feedback, borderline physical and mental abuse, and complete waste of time. My life has been incredibly peaceful ever since. I'm not opposed to a relationship, but, yeah, as a mouthy feminist who can financially support herself, it would take a particular kind of guy to sign on and pass my criteria. My cats agree.
THIS. I remember so clearly being singled out during a talk at one of my Wharton Women events for “opting out of the workforce”, which isn’t what happened at all and f-ck if I wanted to explain to a roomful of people I didn’t know how I was laid off on my way to my wedding and found out I was pregnant on my way back, then 4 months later while I was still pregnant and job hunting my husband’s firm decided to relocate us. That was when I realized I was never going to be able to “re-enter” the workforce and my fancy degree wasn’t the insurance policy I thought it was.
Sorry this is off-track- that line seared me all the way through.
I had a hard time writing this because it felt like it related to SO MANY MANY THINGS that are bad right now. So I hear you. Yes, the opting out as survival being viewed as betrayal....IT'S A LOT
For so many women, being partnered is a sign of success and achievement, watching other women skip that step and still be happy....well, it's falling afoul of the rules and people don't like that.
I'd like to circle back to "must like pineapple on pizza" but first...
Today's MYaM drops in a curious coincidence on the same day that my credit union robo-called me to say my checking account is frozen for "suspicious transactions" (thanks, surveillance state!) which turned out to be the automatic renewal for a dating app I haven't used in almost a year. My bad, in so many ways. But also my good, since I've been using that time to date myself aka fall asleep face-down in said bowl of pasta, and apparently the weeks and months have been so fulfilling that I disregarded my end of personal banking duties. Win-win?
My break from dating started in 2005. I'm still on it, too, and every time someone tells me how sorry they are for me that I'm getting old and am all alone I don't even try to hold back the laughter.
I'm trans, so it's a bit of a special case, but I quit dating apps(never having used them much anyway) probably 6 or more years ago. Once the whole swiping based on pictures and very limited info was introduced, it just felt so superficial and... shitty. I was single for several years (not really keeping track) but never regretted it. I'm in a relationship now, and it certainly didn't start via app.
I had a baby a couple of months ago and was recommended an app for meeting other mums ....I spent 5 minutes on it and was just reminded about the shittynes of dating apps and the dead of having to sell myself. I had to remove it from my phone! (Fortunately I have 2 vey supportive peer groups from antenatal courses, all great women who probably would have not swiped right on me or vice versa. Just nice people to share ups and downs of each baby stage with)
Does not disappoint! Barely two sentences in and Jia has the amazing phrase "the weighted blanket of family money" as an aside about a completely different point. That phrase on its own could make a solid book.
"So often, opting out is viewed as a betrayal." Don't I know it. Try coming out as asexual - somehow that's the ultimate betrayal. I'm 43, getting divorced and what's wild is I finally realized I never had to date AT ALL. It's always felt like something I SHOULD do, to earn social capital, to participate. But I have so many dating memories that just being back full-body DREAD. Why didn't anyone tell me I just didn't have to? Why "haha, I know, it's so awful, but..." But nothing. Not anymore. I follow Shani Silver as well. Whew.
This! Absolutely this. It's always so great to have this articulated. Nothing terrible will happen to us if we just DON'T DATE. Although something terrible wil very well might happen if we do - even if it is just wasting a few precious hours we can't get back with some guy who won't shut up about craft beer. Life is too short.
This makes me think of the old movie "Household Saints." Lili Taylor plays a little girl who decides to become a nun. Her very Italian-American dad (played by Vincent Dinofrio) screams at her that nuns are "sick women" because they don't want any thing. And the way he plays the role, it seems like his extremely horny character is really angry that a woman would joyfully choose celibacy. Today, that seems like a coded way of pathologizing asexuality.
I've noticed that a lot of men online seem to regard female celibacy as a human rights violation against guys trying to find romance.
Oh dating apps are HELL alright. I spent 8 months using them all and had a ridiculous catalog of outrageous experiences with all sorts of men - both horrible and hilarious. I did eventually meet my fantastic partner on Facebook Dating but the only reason we connected so quickly was because we are both academics and had an instant shared world or professional experiences to bond over. We both found the Facebook Dating section to be a dumpster fire but we did meet that way, nevertheless! We laugh over it now but if we had not come across each other online, we would probably never have met despite living in the same city. Interestingly, neither of my Gen Z kids will use dating apps at all. They met their partners through work, hobbies, gaming, trivia teams, etc. So I definitely hate the dating apps and so do my kids, but those shitty apps did somehow bring me my beloved partner so I am indeed grateful for that. But I sure would not want to ever do it again! YUCK.
I have a similar story! Tried the apps post-divorce at the urging of my therapist who wanted me to experience them so I could have an informed opinion (she was right, btw). Made a deal with her that I'd give it a week. Matched with my current (wonderful, amazing, beautiful) partner on day 6 of that week, though continued to app-dabble for several months afterwards and have the expected litany of absurd stories. Partner and I have marveled at the strangeness of how well aligned we are by nearly every metric, yet there is no world where we would have met without the dreaded apps. I suppose it's an "even a broken clock is right twice a day" sort of situation!
Algorithms are garbage. I'm trying to get my students to do research, and I have them compare Google, Wikipedia, and a scholarly article from the library database. This quarter, the big complaint is that the scholarly articles are too hard to read. No critical analysis of the Google, and a lot of disrespect for Wikipedia (which cites its sources). I am getting a lot of bra ads. I'm not sure how the Google knows I even have boobs.
I am a chemist and really hate the new search algorithms. It used to be I could just string together a bunch of specific chemistry terms and find what I needed, but now everything defaults to trying to sell me something or searches something totally different because it assumed I spelled something wrong.
I hate the person I become when I'm swiping on dating apps. It is so superficial that part of the evaluation becomes, "What would people think of me if they saw me with this person?" It is like the devs saw people trying to pick someone up at a bar and decided the solution was to remove the friends, drinks, and music.
Even though I am married for the second time for one year, I have spent most of my life single after having a 4-year starter marriage at age 25. So, I was one of the first to jump on match.com. But yes, it's become a den of thieves and liars and predators. I had given up on it years ago. I was in my late 40's and was happy to spend the rest of my life alone, because I'd been there, done that, met the idiots, left crap dates happy to be free of the guy who thought it was ok to put his hand on my thigh on our first date at dinner, or the guy who was late to the cafe because he was stalking me for 30 minutes from his car to "make sure," I wasn't some "overweight, desperate gold digger," or the guy who said he was "woke," online, only to rip into me at dinner about what I was ordering "That's a LOT of calories!" (So, screw this guy - he said he was paying, so I ordered CAKE for dessert on top of everything!) and numerous other morons who complained about their "b*tch" exes, "sh!t" co-workers, or how "everyone (else but him) is SO stupid." So, yeah - never did me a damn bit of good, and I'm very happy and relieved that I met my soulmate at the park where we used to walk our dogs. Organic and no pressure ability to just talk and get to know another person. People should try this. And if I hadn't met him, I would be happy to be alone for the rest of my life, no problem.
Ghosting is not a new phenomenon. I started dating in 1972 and men would disappear after two or three dates on the regular. When I first heard the word “ghosting” applied I was almost relieved it finally had a name.
If men need relationships with women more than women need relationships with men (true), then more men are looking, and I've read that men outnumber women on the dating apps, by a lot. I strongly suspect then that women on the apps are getting too much attention, while men aren't getting enough attention. The incentive then becomes for men to try harder, and women to pull back, which would seem to just make it worse. I suppose this is probably true for real life interactions too, though?
Sometimes it feels like men and women just aren't made for one another, and it's amazing anything ever works out.
I don't really know the proportion of men to women on the apps but in my (older) age bracket, very few of the men seemed to work very hard at trying to connect with me. The vast majority of men I met seemed to view finding a mate much like picking out an appliance. They didn't seem to care much about the features, make or model (i.e. ME as an actual unique human being), they just wanted someone - anyone - to fulfill the "female" role in their lives. The longer I spent on the apps, the worse my view of men became. And then I met my partner on an app - and he is FUCKING AMAZING. We connected almost instantly on the first date and promptly fled the apps, never looking back even for an instant. Thank God we met, but Lordy it's a shitshow out there.
I met my late husband on OKCupid in 2013, when I was 44 and it was a shitshow then. In that age bracket I got mostly messages from guys who were >10 years older than me.
Yup, back in the day, men would *flock to a new woman (me, in this case) on a dating app like seagulls in a parking lot when I throw out my remaining fries. :o )
On Match, my little "summary" was "I am attracted to men who can express themselves well." The number of men who did *not take advantage of that information and instead sent obvious canned cut-and-paste messages was a lot. And one dude sent me a message during one of my stints on Match and then sent the same message when I had rejoined briefly (I got a free month as part of a class-action settlement but didn't realize it was a defined month, from X day to Y day; I thought I just got a month from whenever I logged in, so I ended up having only four days), and when I called him out for sending the same message, he got mad at me.
So, yup, it's a marvel that the human race continues!
We're not, right? That's why we, as a species, have mostly organized ourselves into homosocial groups with a quick break for procreation for basically the whole of human history. The fact that it wasn't always a voluntary segregation doesn't necessarily diminish the effects of the stunning joy we get from sustained and quotidian same-sex, not-necessarily-sexual relationships.
When I got divorced several years ago, my direct report who was 25 years my junior created a Tinder profile for me while we were out for drinks one night. I decided I would give it a try - I would go on three dates. If none of them was even remotely interesting then I would delete the app. I went on the three dates. They were all crap. A couple extremely self satisfied, shit eating yuppies (I guess the 21st century version of this is "tech bro?" IDK) and one guy who positioned himself in the bar so he could watch the game while we chatted. I deleted the app. Since then I've opted out of Facebook and Instagram as well (though I still go on LinkedIn sometimes). No husband, no boyfriend, no apps. Never better.
I like Cory Doctorow's work, particularly "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" and "Walkaway."
After my first wife divorced me (which really turned out best for both of us) I tried to enter dating again. A PhD neuro genius friend of mine said that the smartest thing to do was to use the newish internet to increase the denominator of contacts and then sift carefully for qualities important to me. I opened an eHarmony account. Admittedly this was twenty years ago. Don't know how it is now, but there was a 300+ question questionnaire to work through before you could see anything/anyone. It was supposed to weed out lazy, quacks and liars.
My top criteria were 1. education 2. no religious anything 3. communication and 4. honesty.
I had five ladies that screened in and the one I reached out to was very open about having a middle-school child and wanting someone willing to be a good role model to her. It was clear her child was her priority. I was okay with that. I hit the jackpot and we're still together, very happily. That child in her post is graduated from college and now married herself. My second wife and I now also have a youngest child that is headed to college this fall. I guess I/we got very lucky in the golden age of dating apps/sites.
I once (2007) met a gentleman who claimed to be one of the founders of Match.com. I was chatting (about wine) with his girlfriend at a wine tasting; he spotted me and joined our conversation. After introductions, I asked him if they met online. He stepped back with a disgusted look and exclaimed "God no!" They both laughed.
That was instructive.
WOW
I met my now ex-husband when he searched AOL profiles back in the day and then IM'd me (this makes me 97 years old, clearly). This only proves that a man needs to be ready for a relationship and when he is he'll go on the hunt and do what it takes. A great friend is now married (with two adorable babies) to what seems like an AMAZING catch, and her husband's been on TWO first dates in his whole life: one with his first wife and now one with my friend, his second wife, who he met through an expensive matchmaker. Either he's incredibly selective or incredibly lucky. I opted out of dating at least a year back because of the unsolicited feedback, borderline physical and mental abuse, and complete waste of time. My life has been incredibly peaceful ever since. I'm not opposed to a relationship, but, yeah, as a mouthy feminist who can financially support herself, it would take a particular kind of guy to sign on and pass my criteria. My cats agree.
“So often, opting out is viewed as a betrayal.”
THIS. I remember so clearly being singled out during a talk at one of my Wharton Women events for “opting out of the workforce”, which isn’t what happened at all and f-ck if I wanted to explain to a roomful of people I didn’t know how I was laid off on my way to my wedding and found out I was pregnant on my way back, then 4 months later while I was still pregnant and job hunting my husband’s firm decided to relocate us. That was when I realized I was never going to be able to “re-enter” the workforce and my fancy degree wasn’t the insurance policy I thought it was.
Sorry this is off-track- that line seared me all the way through.
I had a hard time writing this because it felt like it related to SO MANY MANY THINGS that are bad right now. So I hear you. Yes, the opting out as survival being viewed as betrayal....IT'S A LOT
Makes me wanna ask “who betrayed whom?”
For so many women, being partnered is a sign of success and achievement, watching other women skip that step and still be happy....well, it's falling afoul of the rules and people don't like that.
Yes, that!
I'd like to circle back to "must like pineapple on pizza" but first...
Today's MYaM drops in a curious coincidence on the same day that my credit union robo-called me to say my checking account is frozen for "suspicious transactions" (thanks, surveillance state!) which turned out to be the automatic renewal for a dating app I haven't used in almost a year. My bad, in so many ways. But also my good, since I've been using that time to date myself aka fall asleep face-down in said bowl of pasta, and apparently the weeks and months have been so fulfilling that I disregarded my end of personal banking duties. Win-win?
Reading this made me realize that I haven't dated for ... 15 years. Huh. That went by fast!
My break from dating started in 2005. I'm still on it, too, and every time someone tells me how sorry they are for me that I'm getting old and am all alone I don't even try to hold back the laughter.
I took a break from dating in 2008. I’m still on it. No regrets.
I'm trans, so it's a bit of a special case, but I quit dating apps(never having used them much anyway) probably 6 or more years ago. Once the whole swiping based on pictures and very limited info was introduced, it just felt so superficial and... shitty. I was single for several years (not really keeping track) but never regretted it. I'm in a relationship now, and it certainly didn't start via app.
I had a baby a couple of months ago and was recommended an app for meeting other mums ....I spent 5 minutes on it and was just reminded about the shittynes of dating apps and the dead of having to sell myself. I had to remove it from my phone! (Fortunately I have 2 vey supportive peer groups from antenatal courses, all great women who probably would have not swiped right on me or vice versa. Just nice people to share ups and downs of each baby stage with)
The dread I mean
I just read this article by Jia Tolentino about pregnancy apps and privacy and I really enjoyed it...how we connect surveillance to care https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/the-hidden-pregnancy-experiment
I love Jia's writing. One fav is her Bon Apitit piece on writing and pasta: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/jia-tolentino-writing-pasta
Does not disappoint! Barely two sentences in and Jia has the amazing phrase "the weighted blanket of family money" as an aside about a completely different point. That phrase on its own could make a solid book.
Love that line!
I would read Jia Tolento's grocery list. (not in a creepy way, she just never fails to have amazing writing)
"So often, opting out is viewed as a betrayal." Don't I know it. Try coming out as asexual - somehow that's the ultimate betrayal. I'm 43, getting divorced and what's wild is I finally realized I never had to date AT ALL. It's always felt like something I SHOULD do, to earn social capital, to participate. But I have so many dating memories that just being back full-body DREAD. Why didn't anyone tell me I just didn't have to? Why "haha, I know, it's so awful, but..." But nothing. Not anymore. I follow Shani Silver as well. Whew.
This! Absolutely this. It's always so great to have this articulated. Nothing terrible will happen to us if we just DON'T DATE. Although something terrible wil very well might happen if we do - even if it is just wasting a few precious hours we can't get back with some guy who won't shut up about craft beer. Life is too short.
This makes me think of the old movie "Household Saints." Lili Taylor plays a little girl who decides to become a nun. Her very Italian-American dad (played by Vincent Dinofrio) screams at her that nuns are "sick women" because they don't want any thing. And the way he plays the role, it seems like his extremely horny character is really angry that a woman would joyfully choose celibacy. Today, that seems like a coded way of pathologizing asexuality.
I've noticed that a lot of men online seem to regard female celibacy as a human rights violation against guys trying to find romance.
Oh dating apps are HELL alright. I spent 8 months using them all and had a ridiculous catalog of outrageous experiences with all sorts of men - both horrible and hilarious. I did eventually meet my fantastic partner on Facebook Dating but the only reason we connected so quickly was because we are both academics and had an instant shared world or professional experiences to bond over. We both found the Facebook Dating section to be a dumpster fire but we did meet that way, nevertheless! We laugh over it now but if we had not come across each other online, we would probably never have met despite living in the same city. Interestingly, neither of my Gen Z kids will use dating apps at all. They met their partners through work, hobbies, gaming, trivia teams, etc. So I definitely hate the dating apps and so do my kids, but those shitty apps did somehow bring me my beloved partner so I am indeed grateful for that. But I sure would not want to ever do it again! YUCK.
I have a similar story! Tried the apps post-divorce at the urging of my therapist who wanted me to experience them so I could have an informed opinion (she was right, btw). Made a deal with her that I'd give it a week. Matched with my current (wonderful, amazing, beautiful) partner on day 6 of that week, though continued to app-dabble for several months afterwards and have the expected litany of absurd stories. Partner and I have marveled at the strangeness of how well aligned we are by nearly every metric, yet there is no world where we would have met without the dreaded apps. I suppose it's an "even a broken clock is right twice a day" sort of situation!
Algorithms are garbage. I'm trying to get my students to do research, and I have them compare Google, Wikipedia, and a scholarly article from the library database. This quarter, the big complaint is that the scholarly articles are too hard to read. No critical analysis of the Google, and a lot of disrespect for Wikipedia (which cites its sources). I am getting a lot of bra ads. I'm not sure how the Google knows I even have boobs.
I am a chemist and really hate the new search algorithms. It used to be I could just string together a bunch of specific chemistry terms and find what I needed, but now everything defaults to trying to sell me something or searches something totally different because it assumed I spelled something wrong.
I hate the person I become when I'm swiping on dating apps. It is so superficial that part of the evaluation becomes, "What would people think of me if they saw me with this person?" It is like the devs saw people trying to pick someone up at a bar and decided the solution was to remove the friends, drinks, and music.
Even though I am married for the second time for one year, I have spent most of my life single after having a 4-year starter marriage at age 25. So, I was one of the first to jump on match.com. But yes, it's become a den of thieves and liars and predators. I had given up on it years ago. I was in my late 40's and was happy to spend the rest of my life alone, because I'd been there, done that, met the idiots, left crap dates happy to be free of the guy who thought it was ok to put his hand on my thigh on our first date at dinner, or the guy who was late to the cafe because he was stalking me for 30 minutes from his car to "make sure," I wasn't some "overweight, desperate gold digger," or the guy who said he was "woke," online, only to rip into me at dinner about what I was ordering "That's a LOT of calories!" (So, screw this guy - he said he was paying, so I ordered CAKE for dessert on top of everything!) and numerous other morons who complained about their "b*tch" exes, "sh!t" co-workers, or how "everyone (else but him) is SO stupid." So, yeah - never did me a damn bit of good, and I'm very happy and relieved that I met my soulmate at the park where we used to walk our dogs. Organic and no pressure ability to just talk and get to know another person. People should try this. And if I hadn't met him, I would be happy to be alone for the rest of my life, no problem.
I had a running buddy who spent several of our morning runs bemoaning how many married men are on Christian Mingle.
yet that does not SUPRISE ME.
Bastards!!!
Ghosting is not a new phenomenon. I started dating in 1972 and men would disappear after two or three dates on the regular. When I first heard the word “ghosting” applied I was almost relieved it finally had a name.
If men need relationships with women more than women need relationships with men (true), then more men are looking, and I've read that men outnumber women on the dating apps, by a lot. I strongly suspect then that women on the apps are getting too much attention, while men aren't getting enough attention. The incentive then becomes for men to try harder, and women to pull back, which would seem to just make it worse. I suppose this is probably true for real life interactions too, though?
Sometimes it feels like men and women just aren't made for one another, and it's amazing anything ever works out.
I don't really know the proportion of men to women on the apps but in my (older) age bracket, very few of the men seemed to work very hard at trying to connect with me. The vast majority of men I met seemed to view finding a mate much like picking out an appliance. They didn't seem to care much about the features, make or model (i.e. ME as an actual unique human being), they just wanted someone - anyone - to fulfill the "female" role in their lives. The longer I spent on the apps, the worse my view of men became. And then I met my partner on an app - and he is FUCKING AMAZING. We connected almost instantly on the first date and promptly fled the apps, never looking back even for an instant. Thank God we met, but Lordy it's a shitshow out there.
I met my late husband on OKCupid in 2013, when I was 44 and it was a shitshow then. In that age bracket I got mostly messages from guys who were >10 years older than me.
Yup, back in the day, men would *flock to a new woman (me, in this case) on a dating app like seagulls in a parking lot when I throw out my remaining fries. :o )
On Match, my little "summary" was "I am attracted to men who can express themselves well." The number of men who did *not take advantage of that information and instead sent obvious canned cut-and-paste messages was a lot. And one dude sent me a message during one of my stints on Match and then sent the same message when I had rejoined briefly (I got a free month as part of a class-action settlement but didn't realize it was a defined month, from X day to Y day; I thought I just got a month from whenever I logged in, so I ended up having only four days), and when I called him out for sending the same message, he got mad at me.
So, yup, it's a marvel that the human race continues!
“Sometimes it feels like men and women just aren't made for one another, and it's amazing anything ever works out.”
I feel this. The heterosexuals are having a rough time.
We're not, right? That's why we, as a species, have mostly organized ourselves into homosocial groups with a quick break for procreation for basically the whole of human history. The fact that it wasn't always a voluntary segregation doesn't necessarily diminish the effects of the stunning joy we get from sustained and quotidian same-sex, not-necessarily-sexual relationships.
When I got divorced several years ago, my direct report who was 25 years my junior created a Tinder profile for me while we were out for drinks one night. I decided I would give it a try - I would go on three dates. If none of them was even remotely interesting then I would delete the app. I went on the three dates. They were all crap. A couple extremely self satisfied, shit eating yuppies (I guess the 21st century version of this is "tech bro?" IDK) and one guy who positioned himself in the bar so he could watch the game while we chatted. I deleted the app. Since then I've opted out of Facebook and Instagram as well (though I still go on LinkedIn sometimes). No husband, no boyfriend, no apps. Never better.
I like Cory Doctorow's work, particularly "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" and "Walkaway."
After my first wife divorced me (which really turned out best for both of us) I tried to enter dating again. A PhD neuro genius friend of mine said that the smartest thing to do was to use the newish internet to increase the denominator of contacts and then sift carefully for qualities important to me. I opened an eHarmony account. Admittedly this was twenty years ago. Don't know how it is now, but there was a 300+ question questionnaire to work through before you could see anything/anyone. It was supposed to weed out lazy, quacks and liars.
My top criteria were 1. education 2. no religious anything 3. communication and 4. honesty.
I had five ladies that screened in and the one I reached out to was very open about having a middle-school child and wanting someone willing to be a good role model to her. It was clear her child was her priority. I was okay with that. I hit the jackpot and we're still together, very happily. That child in her post is graduated from college and now married herself. My second wife and I now also have a youngest child that is headed to college this fall. I guess I/we got very lucky in the golden age of dating apps/sites.