I found myself thinking about the piece about gender politics regressing once straight men get married and in my own (former) marriage that regression seemed like a manifestation of my ex's deep ambivalence about his mother. When he would complain bitterly about the state of the house, despite rarely if ever lifting a finger to clean it, I would tell him that he should have chosen the woman he dated before me if he wanted to marry his mother. He would then hotly deny that he wanted anything of the sort, and yet? That was exactly the template he clearly was working with. His mom was a homemaker. She quilted, collected teddy bears, only ever had part-time jobs once her "boys" were grown so she could have a little "running around money", and was at her husband's beck and call at all times. She also was a little OCD so their house was spotless all the time. Or maybe she was just horribly, horribly bored. I don't know.
Outwardly, my husband disdained her. Her Republican politics, her Midwestern aesthetics, her embrace of such a traditionally gendered role. But in his heart of hearts he wanted to be waited on just like his dad and he couldn't admit it because it fucked too hard with his ideas of himself as a "progressive", "sensitive" guy. Feh. My dad, by the way, was exactly the same, especially the older he got. He couldn't for the life of him develop any sort of critical self-reflection about how his treatment of my mom was related to the template he'd absorbed based on his parent's relationship dynamic in regards to gender.
2. How do we dismantle the load of bull that kids of both genders are fed about marriage as the ideal from the time they hold their first doll or sports ball so that they can make their own informed choices. (I realize this is like asking, "how do we dismantle the patriarchy in five easy steps.)
3. I see an inherent disconnect in the idea of 50/50, when 50/50 is not how gender value is placed to begin with. As Donna said, society has no intention of supporting women. With two Masters degrees, I have devoted my life to being support staff for my very successful husband because that is how the wage potential panned out. We have a division of labor. My half of the division is socially undervalued compared to his, but my intense labor has allowed him to succeed. It stands to reason that men don't think 50/50 is fair. It is their intellectual shortcoming. I have stepped away from my earning potential, an have been de-skilled as a result. But I have worked my ass off in other areas. So what is my actual worth to society?
Podcast downloaded and I’m looking forward to listening later today.
I have to say that every time I see some liberal woman online talking about a sex strike I’m like…do you all not enjoy sex? Why would I give up something I like doing when the world is already hellbent on punishing me?
I can’t believe we’re still teaching our daughters that sex is something we give or withhold from men as reward/punishment. Women, shockingly, have libidos, too
Oooh! Looking forward to listening to this over the weekend — Not All Dead White Men was one of the keys to tempering my mancrush on Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism.
I found myself thinking about the piece about gender politics regressing once straight men get married and in my own (former) marriage that regression seemed like a manifestation of my ex's deep ambivalence about his mother. When he would complain bitterly about the state of the house, despite rarely if ever lifting a finger to clean it, I would tell him that he should have chosen the woman he dated before me if he wanted to marry his mother. He would then hotly deny that he wanted anything of the sort, and yet? That was exactly the template he clearly was working with. His mom was a homemaker. She quilted, collected teddy bears, only ever had part-time jobs once her "boys" were grown so she could have a little "running around money", and was at her husband's beck and call at all times. She also was a little OCD so their house was spotless all the time. Or maybe she was just horribly, horribly bored. I don't know.
Outwardly, my husband disdained her. Her Republican politics, her Midwestern aesthetics, her embrace of such a traditionally gendered role. But in his heart of hearts he wanted to be waited on just like his dad and he couldn't admit it because it fucked too hard with his ideas of himself as a "progressive", "sensitive" guy. Feh. My dad, by the way, was exactly the same, especially the older he got. He couldn't for the life of him develop any sort of critical self-reflection about how his treatment of my mom was related to the template he'd absorbed based on his parent's relationship dynamic in regards to gender.
Loved this episode. I wrestle with these ideas constantly.
1. I had to look up red-pilled. How did I miss it culturally? I blame the fog of small children. Found this helpful article from 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/14/the-red-pill-reddit-modern-misogyny-manosphere-men
2. How do we dismantle the load of bull that kids of both genders are fed about marriage as the ideal from the time they hold their first doll or sports ball so that they can make their own informed choices. (I realize this is like asking, "how do we dismantle the patriarchy in five easy steps.)
3. I see an inherent disconnect in the idea of 50/50, when 50/50 is not how gender value is placed to begin with. As Donna said, society has no intention of supporting women. With two Masters degrees, I have devoted my life to being support staff for my very successful husband because that is how the wage potential panned out. We have a division of labor. My half of the division is socially undervalued compared to his, but my intense labor has allowed him to succeed. It stands to reason that men don't think 50/50 is fair. It is their intellectual shortcoming. I have stepped away from my earning potential, an have been de-skilled as a result. But I have worked my ass off in other areas. So what is my actual worth to society?
Great conversation. Thanks.
Podcast downloaded and I’m looking forward to listening later today.
I have to say that every time I see some liberal woman online talking about a sex strike I’m like…do you all not enjoy sex? Why would I give up something I like doing when the world is already hellbent on punishing me?
I can’t believe we’re still teaching our daughters that sex is something we give or withhold from men as reward/punishment. Women, shockingly, have libidos, too
couldn't agree more!
"And the guy's like, how quickly can I lock down a new emotional labor source?"
100%
Oooh! Looking forward to listening to this over the weekend — Not All Dead White Men was one of the keys to tempering my mancrush on Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism.