A timely subject, as the conversation on the local radio station this morning (Z102.9, if you're local to Lyz) was regarding whether a parent should warn their college student that they are planning to visit, or just "drop in" for a spot inspection. I had a visceral reaction to the question being asked--your college student is an adult, you should treat them like one, not a petulant child on whom you can spy just because you happen to pay the bills.
I'm sorry, what. And I can so easily imagine the same radio jocks complaining about "kids these days expect everything done for them as if they've never had to be on their own" and "what are kids so anxious about these days anyways" People are so cruel about kids.
The idea of needing to have children to prop up the economy seems like the worst possible reason to have kids.
"Dad, why was I born?"
"Well, my little Medicare sponge, the economy always needs to expand, see, and there weren't enough kids to support all us old folks when we go into retirement."
If an economy can't stand fewer children being born, then it probably isn't a very good economic system.
This has been on my mind in so many ways lately, I'm stunned to find so many of my thoughts articulated here. I can't wait to read the NYer piece. I've often wondered if my very long but uneventful labor that resulted in a c'section and then a long period of recovery for me when I couldn't really immediately do the parenting things... if that was why I never felt the way some parents seem to feel - my own mother, for example, made me feel as though I am still at 40 an extra limb of hers that just happens to talk sometimes. I have from the moment of holding my daughter been overwhelmed with the mystery of her, who she is, who she will be, how she will see the world. She just started Kindergarten and at pick up from afterschool programs this week, has taken to saying "I need space" and going to the bathroom on her own. I'm not entirely sure she CAN or Will properly do the things like, not licking foreign objects and fully washing her hands, but I fully respect her desire to do this on her own. I just, like, go to the door after she goes in so I can watch the washing part.... Anyway. I cant wait to read everything more fully, but had to just say I was stunned that this was a discussion topic, it really has been weighing on me a lot since kindergarten started - thanks as always for having this space, Lyz!
Who do the children belong to? Themselves. That "reconciliation" and "forgiveness" bullshit makes me furious. It's an abusive system that allows abusers to thrive.
A judge here in Montana recently made a similarly incoherent order. It ended up getting a reversal from our Supreme Court, a rebuke, and the judge ended up resigning in disgrace.
That’s amazing. Appeals here are infuriating and pricey and very rarely are decisions reversed. Almost never. Takes years to wind through the system and by then the kids…they can’t recover
Much of former Judge Christopher's district is a Native reservation, and Elmo, where the mom lives, is the cultural center of the Kootenai nation. A Montana reader, and our Supreme Court, would be acutely aware of this, even if no one is saying anything out loud.
It looks like it took our Supreme Court a little more than 3 months to fix this.
We've been very fortunate in our Supreme Court. Our current chief justice is retiring though and in the upcoming election we have the option of going the wrong way -- as we are in so many other ways -- on that.
I had a respect and ownership conversation with my 13y yesterday. He was confused that his teacher demanded immediate respect while telling the class that they have to earn his. "Doesn't the respect thing flow both ways?" Yes, it should. I have always told him that he doesn't belong to me, he belongs to himself. I want to care for him and guide him as best as I can, but his life is his own, not mine. This seems like it should be such an obvious thing. Parenting is f*ing hard, why do these people endeavor to make it harder?
Love this. I've always told my kids they can ask me anything, especially why. Sometimes it might be after their shoes are on and we're in the car, but I will always tell them.
and the 14-year old who shot and killed four people yesterday and injured nine others had mental health problems. he'd repeatedly asked for help but wasn't given it. we are failing our kids with tragic results.
I remember when I was in the hospital with my first. I was in all the uncertainty and gathering information and wanting to do my best as a new mom. The lactation consultant came in, and I said sure, I'd like some advice. She proceeded to tell me to wake up my newborn (eyeroll), and then when she didn't immediately latch, to use a "rapid arm movement, or RAM" to move her head to my breast. I should have told her to beat it right then and there, but I knew I would never RAM any infant head anywhere. I'd been stunned, the day before, in the delivery room, of how palpably here and human even this 30 minute old child was. They are simply pre-verbal people. And always, always, always their own. Parents who don't get that are cruising for a very lonely old age.
I have a friend in England who realized she was pregnant after an acrimonious breakup. I asked her about getting the ex to renounce his parental rights to prevent future difficulties. She was mystified. "What are parental rights?" she asked. In England there are no parental rights. There are parental responsibilities. If you meet them (say, if you're the non-custodial parent, by doing what you say you will, providing monetary support, and behaving in such a way that your child wants to see you), then you can have some parental privileges, like seeing them, visiting them, etc. If not, not. I'm sure it's more complicated than that. But it seems it might be a helpful shift in perspective for our legal system.
We dropped our 18 year old off at college last week. She's been very independent for years, to be honest, so I was surprised that she called casually asking for advice on which excess class to drop. There really isn't any greater hope for our kids than they can find happiness in a long, healthy life. Our second greatest hope is that they choose to keep us, parents, an active and helpful part of that happy life when they become adults.
As for abusive parents, my partner fled an abusive father when they were in high school. They were then admitted early to NYU without parental permission, paid for it with Army ROTC and actually had to chill for a year working in NYC because they were too young to be legally commissioned as an Army officer on NYU graduation. They did not reach out to their abusive father for a partial reconciliation for nearly thirty years, and then only because of our daughter. After lengthy debate, we decided we wanted to our daughter to know she had a grandfather who was nearing the end of his life and to meet him. He's gone now, but the victim's pain endures long past his passing. The situation in Colorado is an abomination. The right call is that the father is a child abuser and thus has surrendered many rights including to have any authority over his children. Like my partner, they may choose as adults to reach out to their abusive father. Or not.
The best part??? We worked our assess off to ban reunification therapy here. We succeeded- it was signed into law last session!!!!! It’s not a total ban, but it’s a severe limitation. It should have been banned in this particular instance, according to the law as it stands. This judge broke the law and there is no recourse to hold him accountable. (I just came back from a rally for Rachel, the jailed mom. She is amazing and my heart is just broken for her).
This is one of so many reasons why I roll my eyes when (white!) people say nonsense about being safe in a blue state. Family court is WRETCHED and there is no good reason for it.
A timely subject, as the conversation on the local radio station this morning (Z102.9, if you're local to Lyz) was regarding whether a parent should warn their college student that they are planning to visit, or just "drop in" for a spot inspection. I had a visceral reaction to the question being asked--your college student is an adult, you should treat them like one, not a petulant child on whom you can spy just because you happen to pay the bills.
And kids who are estranged from parents have every right to be. The idea of courts imposing this kind of forced reinstatement is really horrifying.
I'm sorry, what. And I can so easily imagine the same radio jocks complaining about "kids these days expect everything done for them as if they've never had to be on their own" and "what are kids so anxious about these days anyways" People are so cruel about kids.
The idea of needing to have children to prop up the economy seems like the worst possible reason to have kids.
"Dad, why was I born?"
"Well, my little Medicare sponge, the economy always needs to expand, see, and there weren't enough kids to support all us old folks when we go into retirement."
If an economy can't stand fewer children being born, then it probably isn't a very good economic system.
Question Before the House: Why should anyone, especially a child, be required to "reconcile" with a monster?
Or, really, with any parent they don't want to be reconciled with. How does that lead to anything but broken adults who believe they have no agency?
From the linked article, this looks like court ordered religious indoctrination. Inexcusable.
The judge in this case broke the law. We eliminated the use of reunification therapy last year. It’s ENRAGING
Mayhap judges should be required to pass a test to be re-certified.
Or jailed when they break the law 🤷🏼♀️
WTF? And this is Colorado, which is supposed to be progressive. 😡
Colorado is more libertarian than progressive.
Family courts are worse in “blue” states. Way worse.
I didn't even know this was a thing. I'm so grossed out.
Same!
This has been on my mind in so many ways lately, I'm stunned to find so many of my thoughts articulated here. I can't wait to read the NYer piece. I've often wondered if my very long but uneventful labor that resulted in a c'section and then a long period of recovery for me when I couldn't really immediately do the parenting things... if that was why I never felt the way some parents seem to feel - my own mother, for example, made me feel as though I am still at 40 an extra limb of hers that just happens to talk sometimes. I have from the moment of holding my daughter been overwhelmed with the mystery of her, who she is, who she will be, how she will see the world. She just started Kindergarten and at pick up from afterschool programs this week, has taken to saying "I need space" and going to the bathroom on her own. I'm not entirely sure she CAN or Will properly do the things like, not licking foreign objects and fully washing her hands, but I fully respect her desire to do this on her own. I just, like, go to the door after she goes in so I can watch the washing part.... Anyway. I cant wait to read everything more fully, but had to just say I was stunned that this was a discussion topic, it really has been weighing on me a lot since kindergarten started - thanks as always for having this space, Lyz!
Who do the children belong to? Themselves. That "reconciliation" and "forgiveness" bullshit makes me furious. It's an abusive system that allows abusers to thrive.
That Colorado case is unspeakably gross.
It’s frighteningly common.
A judge here in Montana recently made a similarly incoherent order. It ended up getting a reversal from our Supreme Court, a rebuke, and the judge ended up resigning in disgrace.
https://montanafreepress.org/2024/03/29/montana-district-court-judge-to-resign-amid-judicial-standards-complaint/
All too often, though, these things pas by under the general public's radar.
That’s amazing. Appeals here are infuriating and pricey and very rarely are decisions reversed. Almost never. Takes years to wind through the system and by then the kids…they can’t recover
Here's more detail on that Montana case.
https://dailymontanan.com/2024/01/03/montana-supreme-court-removes-lake-county-district-court-judge-from-child-custody-case/
Much of former Judge Christopher's district is a Native reservation, and Elmo, where the mom lives, is the cultural center of the Kootenai nation. A Montana reader, and our Supreme Court, would be acutely aware of this, even if no one is saying anything out loud.
It looks like it took our Supreme Court a little more than 3 months to fix this.
Again, just amazing. We never get anything fixed that quickly here. Ever.
We've been very fortunate in our Supreme Court. Our current chief justice is retiring though and in the upcoming election we have the option of going the wrong way -- as we are in so many other ways -- on that.
(His opinion distinguishing Citizens United was a thing of beauty, and drew a swift and bitter-because-they-were-in-the-wrong rebuke from the US Supreme Court. https://www.hcn.org/issues/44-2/montana-court-defends-law-defying-citizens-united/ Oh well, all things pass.)
In Rachel’s case, we have made an appeal to the chief justice to step in, but she is only two months into the job and probably won’t.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScTknJXR7loiycLNTIEE--PiHFJw_1rER9Bc6YZY9EG5prepA/viewform?usp=send_form
I had a respect and ownership conversation with my 13y yesterday. He was confused that his teacher demanded immediate respect while telling the class that they have to earn his. "Doesn't the respect thing flow both ways?" Yes, it should. I have always told him that he doesn't belong to me, he belongs to himself. I want to care for him and guide him as best as I can, but his life is his own, not mine. This seems like it should be such an obvious thing. Parenting is f*ing hard, why do these people endeavor to make it harder?
Love this. I've always told my kids they can ask me anything, especially why. Sometimes it might be after their shoes are on and we're in the car, but I will always tell them.
and the 14-year old who shot and killed four people yesterday and injured nine others had mental health problems. he'd repeatedly asked for help but wasn't given it. we are failing our kids with tragic results.
I remember when I was in the hospital with my first. I was in all the uncertainty and gathering information and wanting to do my best as a new mom. The lactation consultant came in, and I said sure, I'd like some advice. She proceeded to tell me to wake up my newborn (eyeroll), and then when she didn't immediately latch, to use a "rapid arm movement, or RAM" to move her head to my breast. I should have told her to beat it right then and there, but I knew I would never RAM any infant head anywhere. I'd been stunned, the day before, in the delivery room, of how palpably here and human even this 30 minute old child was. They are simply pre-verbal people. And always, always, always their own. Parents who don't get that are cruising for a very lonely old age.
I have a friend in England who realized she was pregnant after an acrimonious breakup. I asked her about getting the ex to renounce his parental rights to prevent future difficulties. She was mystified. "What are parental rights?" she asked. In England there are no parental rights. There are parental responsibilities. If you meet them (say, if you're the non-custodial parent, by doing what you say you will, providing monetary support, and behaving in such a way that your child wants to see you), then you can have some parental privileges, like seeing them, visiting them, etc. If not, not. I'm sure it's more complicated than that. But it seems it might be a helpful shift in perspective for our legal system.
I like that!!!
Talia Lavin did a fantastic 4-part series on right-wing Christian views on the rights of children. Part I here: https://theswordandthesandwich.substack.com/p/on-the-rights-of-the-child-part-i
THIS. The most significant thing a parent can do is EARN their children’s respect. The most harmful thing a parent can do is force it.
We dropped our 18 year old off at college last week. She's been very independent for years, to be honest, so I was surprised that she called casually asking for advice on which excess class to drop. There really isn't any greater hope for our kids than they can find happiness in a long, healthy life. Our second greatest hope is that they choose to keep us, parents, an active and helpful part of that happy life when they become adults.
As for abusive parents, my partner fled an abusive father when they were in high school. They were then admitted early to NYU without parental permission, paid for it with Army ROTC and actually had to chill for a year working in NYC because they were too young to be legally commissioned as an Army officer on NYU graduation. They did not reach out to their abusive father for a partial reconciliation for nearly thirty years, and then only because of our daughter. After lengthy debate, we decided we wanted to our daughter to know she had a grandfather who was nearing the end of his life and to meet him. He's gone now, but the victim's pain endures long past his passing. The situation in Colorado is an abomination. The right call is that the father is a child abuser and thus has surrendered many rights including to have any authority over his children. Like my partner, they may choose as adults to reach out to their abusive father. Or not.
The best part??? We worked our assess off to ban reunification therapy here. We succeeded- it was signed into law last session!!!!! It’s not a total ban, but it’s a severe limitation. It should have been banned in this particular instance, according to the law as it stands. This judge broke the law and there is no recourse to hold him accountable. (I just came back from a rally for Rachel, the jailed mom. She is amazing and my heart is just broken for her).
This is one of so many reasons why I roll my eyes when (white!) people say nonsense about being safe in a blue state. Family court is WRETCHED and there is no good reason for it.