Thank you for this and for sharing the Melinda Wenner Moyer newsletter which I'm reading right now. I don't know how I can help other adult men deal with their loneliness, but it is validating to read what she wrote about the importance of rejecting gender stereotypes in general and rejecting the idea that men and boys should suppress their emotions in particular.
A couple of years back while sharing happy memories about my mom with him at bedtime I started to cry and he started to cry and he hugged me and said "we are the crying boys" which is the best boy group I've ever been in. I doubt that I'll get everything right with raising this kiddo, but I feel pretty good about the emotional stuff.
“board adviser in a national financial services business, real estate investor, and I do my own private equity investing”.
Yeah, this woman hears, “unemployed”. But I went to Wharton, so not only do I know what these words mean...I know when they are meaningless. 🤪
Side note: this is why, much to my husband’s frustration, I don’t describe myself as a CEO or a Founder- to keep from sounding like this guy. I’m a small business owner, I love what I do, I’m proud we still exist after the pandemic, and it facilitates my ability to do Badass policy-oriented volunteer work that is meaningful and has impact.
***This isn’t to say men aren’t suffering; it’s just that their suffering apparently merits a level of concern that women’s suffering never has.*** This. This right here. I had never heard of this mini Andrew Tate before and will do my best to forget him. It is impossible to forget the ways in which our sexist system encourages men like this to feel entitled and angry when they don't get what they want. This guy is one of the reasons I am so happy my grandchildren are growing up in Sweden. Don't worry, Sweden is anti-women in a variety of ways. Just not to the same extreme... yet.
I'm sure you're well aware of 'passport bros'--men who find American women so undateable because we have jobs, advanced degrees, homes, cars and a strong sense of worth--that they feel the need to travel to other countries to get more submissive women (hence, the passport). Of course, very few of these 'bros' have little to offer and don't like being called out for their lack of preparation and life choices. So, they bitch, whine and complain, then show off their passports on TikTok with a 'that'll show them nasty feminists' bravado. Meanwhile, hardly any go overseas and the ones that do, rarely find women who want to hang out with broken (and sometimes broke) men. It's one helluva thing.
As I read this I felt a sense of gratitude for the accident of my body and its obesity, shielding me from a lot of direct interaction with men like this. And also the weird discomfort that comes with wondering what it means to find/have this sort of invisibility work to my advantage.
I went out on one date with a man who later became big in the red pill world and also has his own classes and YouTube channels. It's the only time I ever considered walking out of a date. He has daughters and I wonder how his hate toward women will impact them down the line.
As an occasionally heterosexual man (Red flag!) of a certain age and extremely limited “sexual market value”, my ideal relationship was from Wodehouse. Specifically Jeeves and Bertie (as a young man I was convinced they were screwing, with Jeeves on top), but I’ve seen it in Wodehouse’s heterosexual relationships. Affection, snappy dialogue, and the general sense that the man in the relationship is a twit, even a parasite on society, albeit an entertaining one are what really come into play. Admittedly, these heterosexual relationships generally fall apart by the end of the story, leaving the young man bitter and scoffing at love, but Jeeves and Bertie roll on. So to the bereft men of today I say, find yourself a good and wise butler.
"(true! But it’s violence by other men, which is something men and women have in common — we are victims of male violence)"
Thank you so much for stating this explicitly. I would be a wealthy human if I had five bucks for every time a man told me this statistic without stating *who* commits the violence, very much hoping the assumption is that when men experience violence it must be from women, rather than other men.
Your headline says it all. We are still socializing men this way. You're so right that it's a toxic world view that affects every aspect of society and affects all of us, women and men, who want to live in a world built on relationships not domination and transactions. I love all you write, but this hits it out of the park. Thank you.
When my son came out as trans I had to admit that part of my own emotional response to the whole thing was a feeling that he had "gone over to the other team." That despite the fact I primarily sleep with men, I didn't really like or trust them. This was clearly a me problem which, though understandable given misogyny and my own personal experience with actual shitty, violent men, I had to grapple with in order to be unequivocal in my support of my son.
To my son's credit, when I owned up to some of my own response, my son's response was that he doesn't often like or trust cis-het men either. This made me feel like slightly less of an asshole.
I'm still working on this because, like you, my distrust and dislike has been inspired primarily by the inability of men in my life to be in loving relationship to me and other people. Now, however, I honestly like my current partner a lot as a person, which is new, and realizing that has helped me stay when the realities of maintaining a relationship confront me.
Part of me wants to write this dude off. Like, maybe you hate women because you're hateful and not because women deserve your bullshit? Dumbass. But because I have dealt with his level of misogyny all my life I can't discount the necessity to confront it. The trick, for me anyway, has been to do that while making sure that same hatefulness has no access to my daily, intimate life.
I was reading what you said regarding the thin membrane between you and Cooper, and that got me thinking about the similarities between me and him. As much as I’d like to brush him off as a hack and me as being one of the “good men”, I do think that me and Cooper share a desire for external validation. We both base our self worth on external factors, and I personally have a very bad habit of self pity and fishing for compliments. It makes me wonder if I’m really as far from the rabbit hole inhabited by Cooper as I’d like to think I am.
On a more positive note, thanks for posting that Medium review of the book. I’ve never had to try so hard to suppress a laugh ( I’m reading this at work) . I felt like a Roman centurion during the Biggus Dickus scene from Life of Brian
Another one of these grifters out to capitalize on male insecurity and loneliness and tell men what they want to hear. Ultimately men like this aren't interested in relationships, they're interested in property, status and power. They view women as property and tools to gain said status and power. On one level I have a little bit of empathy for some of these people, but on the other I can't help but shrug and say "Grow up and go to therapy."
I pulled up your substack because I was reflecting on a nightmare I had last night and needed some context and community to ground myself in. My former boss and mentor, someone I deeply admired and trusted, came THIS close to kissing me at his farewell party. Someone who is happily married and has daughters my age, but thought, “Hey, what the heck, nothing plundered, nothing gained.” I think about how I still doubt myself, the voice that says I read the situation wrong, and then the deep knowing in my bones that something was horribly off. Almost 6 years later, I dreamt I was stuck with him at some phantasmagorical work function, in which I was simultaneously in charge of hosting and pleasing scores of men, all while fending them off. It’s a pretty good metaphor for the eight years I spent in the wine industry, now that I think about it. “But nothing happened!” I tell myself to stop the worrying, stop the trauma of knowing it is always my fault and never a man’s for when things go too far. I took it too seriously. I was too flirtatious. It is so goddamnfucking exhausting that men are never responsible for men.
Thank you for this and for sharing the Melinda Wenner Moyer newsletter which I'm reading right now. I don't know how I can help other adult men deal with their loneliness, but it is validating to read what she wrote about the importance of rejecting gender stereotypes in general and rejecting the idea that men and boys should suppress their emotions in particular.
A couple of years back while sharing happy memories about my mom with him at bedtime I started to cry and he started to cry and he hugged me and said "we are the crying boys" which is the best boy group I've ever been in. I doubt that I'll get everything right with raising this kiddo, but I feel pretty good about the emotional stuff.
“board adviser in a national financial services business, real estate investor, and I do my own private equity investing”.
Yeah, this woman hears, “unemployed”. But I went to Wharton, so not only do I know what these words mean...I know when they are meaningless. 🤪
Side note: this is why, much to my husband’s frustration, I don’t describe myself as a CEO or a Founder- to keep from sounding like this guy. I’m a small business owner, I love what I do, I’m proud we still exist after the pandemic, and it facilitates my ability to do Badass policy-oriented volunteer work that is meaningful and has impact.
***This isn’t to say men aren’t suffering; it’s just that their suffering apparently merits a level of concern that women’s suffering never has.*** This. This right here. I had never heard of this mini Andrew Tate before and will do my best to forget him. It is impossible to forget the ways in which our sexist system encourages men like this to feel entitled and angry when they don't get what they want. This guy is one of the reasons I am so happy my grandchildren are growing up in Sweden. Don't worry, Sweden is anti-women in a variety of ways. Just not to the same extreme... yet.
Please tell me you wrote an Amazon review.
Apparently, I’m a 100% walking red flag 🤣🤣🤣
I love that you included a quote by bell hooks. Such an excellent piece.
I'm sure you're well aware of 'passport bros'--men who find American women so undateable because we have jobs, advanced degrees, homes, cars and a strong sense of worth--that they feel the need to travel to other countries to get more submissive women (hence, the passport). Of course, very few of these 'bros' have little to offer and don't like being called out for their lack of preparation and life choices. So, they bitch, whine and complain, then show off their passports on TikTok with a 'that'll show them nasty feminists' bravado. Meanwhile, hardly any go overseas and the ones that do, rarely find women who want to hang out with broken (and sometimes broke) men. It's one helluva thing.
As I read this I felt a sense of gratitude for the accident of my body and its obesity, shielding me from a lot of direct interaction with men like this. And also the weird discomfort that comes with wondering what it means to find/have this sort of invisibility work to my advantage.
I went out on one date with a man who later became big in the red pill world and also has his own classes and YouTube channels. It's the only time I ever considered walking out of a date. He has daughters and I wonder how his hate toward women will impact them down the line.
As an occasionally heterosexual man (Red flag!) of a certain age and extremely limited “sexual market value”, my ideal relationship was from Wodehouse. Specifically Jeeves and Bertie (as a young man I was convinced they were screwing, with Jeeves on top), but I’ve seen it in Wodehouse’s heterosexual relationships. Affection, snappy dialogue, and the general sense that the man in the relationship is a twit, even a parasite on society, albeit an entertaining one are what really come into play. Admittedly, these heterosexual relationships generally fall apart by the end of the story, leaving the young man bitter and scoffing at love, but Jeeves and Bertie roll on. So to the bereft men of today I say, find yourself a good and wise butler.
"(true! But it’s violence by other men, which is something men and women have in common — we are victims of male violence)"
Thank you so much for stating this explicitly. I would be a wealthy human if I had five bucks for every time a man told me this statistic without stating *who* commits the violence, very much hoping the assumption is that when men experience violence it must be from women, rather than other men.
Your headline says it all. We are still socializing men this way. You're so right that it's a toxic world view that affects every aspect of society and affects all of us, women and men, who want to live in a world built on relationships not domination and transactions. I love all you write, but this hits it out of the park. Thank you.
I really hope his example of “jobs women don’t do” was coal mining because, sir…it’s 2023. No one should be encouraged to work in a coal mine
When my son came out as trans I had to admit that part of my own emotional response to the whole thing was a feeling that he had "gone over to the other team." That despite the fact I primarily sleep with men, I didn't really like or trust them. This was clearly a me problem which, though understandable given misogyny and my own personal experience with actual shitty, violent men, I had to grapple with in order to be unequivocal in my support of my son.
To my son's credit, when I owned up to some of my own response, my son's response was that he doesn't often like or trust cis-het men either. This made me feel like slightly less of an asshole.
I'm still working on this because, like you, my distrust and dislike has been inspired primarily by the inability of men in my life to be in loving relationship to me and other people. Now, however, I honestly like my current partner a lot as a person, which is new, and realizing that has helped me stay when the realities of maintaining a relationship confront me.
Part of me wants to write this dude off. Like, maybe you hate women because you're hateful and not because women deserve your bullshit? Dumbass. But because I have dealt with his level of misogyny all my life I can't discount the necessity to confront it. The trick, for me anyway, has been to do that while making sure that same hatefulness has no access to my daily, intimate life.
I was reading what you said regarding the thin membrane between you and Cooper, and that got me thinking about the similarities between me and him. As much as I’d like to brush him off as a hack and me as being one of the “good men”, I do think that me and Cooper share a desire for external validation. We both base our self worth on external factors, and I personally have a very bad habit of self pity and fishing for compliments. It makes me wonder if I’m really as far from the rabbit hole inhabited by Cooper as I’d like to think I am.
On a more positive note, thanks for posting that Medium review of the book. I’ve never had to try so hard to suppress a laugh ( I’m reading this at work) . I felt like a Roman centurion during the Biggus Dickus scene from Life of Brian
Another one of these grifters out to capitalize on male insecurity and loneliness and tell men what they want to hear. Ultimately men like this aren't interested in relationships, they're interested in property, status and power. They view women as property and tools to gain said status and power. On one level I have a little bit of empathy for some of these people, but on the other I can't help but shrug and say "Grow up and go to therapy."
I hope you were able to get your money back
I pulled up your substack because I was reflecting on a nightmare I had last night and needed some context and community to ground myself in. My former boss and mentor, someone I deeply admired and trusted, came THIS close to kissing me at his farewell party. Someone who is happily married and has daughters my age, but thought, “Hey, what the heck, nothing plundered, nothing gained.” I think about how I still doubt myself, the voice that says I read the situation wrong, and then the deep knowing in my bones that something was horribly off. Almost 6 years later, I dreamt I was stuck with him at some phantasmagorical work function, in which I was simultaneously in charge of hosting and pleasing scores of men, all while fending them off. It’s a pretty good metaphor for the eight years I spent in the wine industry, now that I think about it. “But nothing happened!” I tell myself to stop the worrying, stop the trauma of knowing it is always my fault and never a man’s for when things go too far. I took it too seriously. I was too flirtatious. It is so goddamnfucking exhausting that men are never responsible for men.