“Once the cute, sassy, outspoken little girls become women, have women’s bodies, women’s desires, and a woman’s exhaustion, our culture punishes us and seeks to control us, rendering us less free than we were as girls.” YES!
This is so painful. And it is so much the plight of women throughout the ages. I remember working on a house flip with a carpenter when Sheryl Crow's "All I Wanna Do" came out, and he made the comment that she was coached. I really didn't understand what he meant, but my takeaway was that because it was a woman singing, she clearly didn't come up with that on her own. So if he felt that way about Crow, I can't even begin to imagine his assessment of Spears. I am connecting this to an interview I saw yesterday where Anthony Mason interviewed Troy Savin, who is now choreographing his show and his videos in much the same way that Spears, Madonna, Beyonce, and Taylor Swift are. My question is - have we evolved away from the brutality that Spears faced?
My real wish for Spears is that she gets some time to just sort things out for herself. I don't care if it's messy or not. I think 41 is young, so I do have a little bit of a particular perspective, but I also didn't spend my teens and 20s in the spotlight.
Thinking of my own generation, I am cast back to Monica Lewinsky. Another young woman who everyone presumed to know and own and judge, though certainly not as thoroughly as Spears. Lewinsky has similarly worked to reclaim her right to her own voice to mixed results. Did I judge her when everything exploded? Mostly for being so easily enraptured by an obvious lech, and the judgement that I would never be that stupid was a comforting delusion. But the majority of my disgust was directed at Bill (rightfully) and Hilary (probably unfairly).
This culture revels in chewing up young women who dare to be sexual-- to have desires and bodies that want things-- and spitting them out. And, of course, the culture is us.
Came here to draw the same parallel because as time has passed I’ve been ashamed of how I judged Monica Lewinsky. My interpretation of that situation has basically changed completely.
Even before listening to the audiobook of the memoir (which I loved) it drove me nuts that people were calling the cops over an Instagram post. Really reinforced the idea that even her very real struggles are just a form of entertainment for a lot of people, which is sad considering how specific and thoughtful her public comments about being perceived and treated that way have been.
I just rewatched Craig Ferguson's monologue from 2007 after Britney's head-shaving incident, thinking he was the only person in public defending her. He still had his own twist on things and insinuated things about her that probably weren't true, so it wasn't a perfect defense of her. But it was a fair attempt at defending her, something nobody else -- NOBODY -- was doing.
This sent me back to that monologue as well, and I agree… the best parts of what he has to say about Spears are when he makes the effort to empathize with her rather than “diagnose” or “understand” her. (For me, though, one of the most striking moments in that whole talk is when he brings up Anna Nicole Smith, and the audience titters, thinking it’s just another gag, and he has to remind them that her death wasn’t funny. And you can tell, from then on they’re listening to him differently, and that matters when he finally does get around to Spears.)
It must be a difficult life to be surrounded by people who want something/everything from you from the time you are a teenager. The people you should be able to depend on depend on you instead. I haven’t read her book but I wonder if she has ever had close female friends. They can make all the difference. She has experienced the pains of aging even as a very young woman as no one keeps that teenage body and everything depended on it. How we love to tear young women apart, very sad.
"how did I learn to put myself and other women into a kind of cultural conservatorship?" OOOOF. I just got back from my prescribed stupid little 20 minute walk*, and this has been knocking around in my head the whole time. The knots I have to unpick to ensure my motivations for the choices I make to take care of myself truly, purely are to care for myself and that they are not influenced by Society (and in turn am I being gentle to myself, a social creature who is wired to want society approbation, etc.): they make me so angry. Where do we bring suit to end this cultural conservatorship? Imagine the freedom to just look outside and think, "a walk would feel nice on this uncharacteristically crisp Texas day, I'm lacing up the shoes." That seems so simple, and yet.
*Here's one of those knots! I'm doing these at least 4 days a week on the advice of the nutritionist I've been working with to help attain some lifting goals, which would be easier to hit if my body fat percentage was lower. Objectively this makes sense, but I resent this whole idea. The kicker is I actually enjoy a stupid little walk. I'm going to follow this advice for a month out of pure spite (and because maybe this is a good habit) to prove that my body just doesn't work that way. Will I be a weird mix of excited and furious if this somehow moves the needle? YEP. YEPPITY YEP.
I could not WAIT to get my pre-ordered copy of her book. I finished it the day it arrived. And it made me so, so sad.
I truly hope she gets the peace and contentment she so richly deserves, but I fear it won't happen.
In recent pictures she looks like a deer caught in the headlights; she knows she has to 'perform' for the camera to promote her memoir, but she has no trust in the world. And who can blame her? Why WOULD she have any trust in a world that used her up and spit her out so callously?
I have nothing but good wishes for her future. I hope she is able to get the help she will need to overcome her lifetime of betrayal and abuse. Because she for damn sure deserves it.
This whole piece is incredibly powerful. We were in the early stages of the internet and social media and she suffered for it. Women have always been persecuted for being “too much,” but she was on display all the time, and was told that was how it had to be. She didn’t know she had another (or any other) choice.
No... I follow her on Instagram. She’s ok, but so, so damaged by what has happened to her. Everything says « please like me ». Getting screwed over by her last husband was really no surprise, she’s vulnerable because she’s been effectively kept prisoner like a performing monkey for most of her life.
I think the constant criticism when she was hardly more than a kid has left permanent damage. You look back at the interviews of her and wonder how the hell that was allowed to happen.
It’s such a shame, she’s clearly so talented, you look at Beyoncé and Taylor Swift - she could have been that, but the 90s/early 00s were all about treating famous women like disposable toys.
I think it's really valuable to think about how harshly we judge her and why that's necessary. Like in your comment, I hear you comparing her to a performing monkey and I find that a fascinating way to talk about a person.
Exactly. It’s insane to think that was considered « ok ». But nobody thought anything of it because she was such a good performer. How can you expect someone to be mentally balanced after spending the majority of their life in that kind of existence.
It’s kind of how K-Pop is now, their whole existence is the band and they have roles to play, it’s a constant performance.
I often think about the "Leave Britney alone!" video and how that person also got dragged heavily but also...like, yes. Could we not, as a culture, think we own famous people or that when someone is famous that means they *should expect* abuse?
We are obsessed with the freedom of this woman (not wrongly) yet I can’t say I know any woman that lives free of the (insane) strict social pressures that their culture places on their gender. Perhaps we (humans) should focus on freeing ourselves from the poison of the patriarchy as much as Britney.
It's so sad, and it's especially nuts because by any professional or cultural measure she's an overwhelming, iconic success. It's like she was forced to build her own prison, and we enjoyed watching her do it.
I've always seen some of the criticism of Britney Spears as class-based, coming out of the usual cultural anxiety about how young women were/are disporting themselves, but in this case aimed at a young woman who had literally no social defenses and was an easy target.
I hadn’t realized my husband and Britney Spears are the same age, I am 5 years younger than her which felt like a a very wide gap when she made her debut when I was 11.
I remember the Gimme More performance bc my sister’s roommate said she didn’t look fit, and she shouldn’t be wearing that type of outfit. This woman was and is still very thin even after having two kids 17 years later. My sister and I defended Britney and said she should wear whatever she wants and we thought she looked great! we also were very judgmental when she had the public meltdown in early 2008, thank you for the Craig Ferguson discussion. She deserved more then and now.
“Once the cute, sassy, outspoken little girls become women, have women’s bodies, women’s desires, and a woman’s exhaustion, our culture punishes us and seeks to control us, rendering us less free than we were as girls.” YES!
This is so painful. And it is so much the plight of women throughout the ages. I remember working on a house flip with a carpenter when Sheryl Crow's "All I Wanna Do" came out, and he made the comment that she was coached. I really didn't understand what he meant, but my takeaway was that because it was a woman singing, she clearly didn't come up with that on her own. So if he felt that way about Crow, I can't even begin to imagine his assessment of Spears. I am connecting this to an interview I saw yesterday where Anthony Mason interviewed Troy Savin, who is now choreographing his show and his videos in much the same way that Spears, Madonna, Beyonce, and Taylor Swift are. My question is - have we evolved away from the brutality that Spears faced?
My real wish for Spears is that she gets some time to just sort things out for herself. I don't care if it's messy or not. I think 41 is young, so I do have a little bit of a particular perspective, but I also didn't spend my teens and 20s in the spotlight.
Thinking of my own generation, I am cast back to Monica Lewinsky. Another young woman who everyone presumed to know and own and judge, though certainly not as thoroughly as Spears. Lewinsky has similarly worked to reclaim her right to her own voice to mixed results. Did I judge her when everything exploded? Mostly for being so easily enraptured by an obvious lech, and the judgement that I would never be that stupid was a comforting delusion. But the majority of my disgust was directed at Bill (rightfully) and Hilary (probably unfairly).
This culture revels in chewing up young women who dare to be sexual-- to have desires and bodies that want things-- and spitting them out. And, of course, the culture is us.
Came here to draw the same parallel because as time has passed I’ve been ashamed of how I judged Monica Lewinsky. My interpretation of that situation has basically changed completely.
Same.
"And, of course, the culture is us."
Yup. No notes.
Even before listening to the audiobook of the memoir (which I loved) it drove me nuts that people were calling the cops over an Instagram post. Really reinforced the idea that even her very real struggles are just a form of entertainment for a lot of people, which is sad considering how specific and thoughtful her public comments about being perceived and treated that way have been.
I just rewatched Craig Ferguson's monologue from 2007 after Britney's head-shaving incident, thinking he was the only person in public defending her. He still had his own twist on things and insinuated things about her that probably weren't true, so it wasn't a perfect defense of her. But it was a fair attempt at defending her, something nobody else -- NOBODY -- was doing.
This sent me back to that monologue as well, and I agree… the best parts of what he has to say about Spears are when he makes the effort to empathize with her rather than “diagnose” or “understand” her. (For me, though, one of the most striking moments in that whole talk is when he brings up Anna Nicole Smith, and the audience titters, thinking it’s just another gag, and he has to remind them that her death wasn’t funny. And you can tell, from then on they’re listening to him differently, and that matters when he finally does get around to Spears.)
Exactly. I mean ... how incredibly sad that these (and so many other) women were just that ... jokes.
It must be a difficult life to be surrounded by people who want something/everything from you from the time you are a teenager. The people you should be able to depend on depend on you instead. I haven’t read her book but I wonder if she has ever had close female friends. They can make all the difference. She has experienced the pains of aging even as a very young woman as no one keeps that teenage body and everything depended on it. How we love to tear young women apart, very sad.
I truly don't think she had anyone in her life that wasn't using her for fame or money. Literally no-one.
"how did I learn to put myself and other women into a kind of cultural conservatorship?" OOOOF. I just got back from my prescribed stupid little 20 minute walk*, and this has been knocking around in my head the whole time. The knots I have to unpick to ensure my motivations for the choices I make to take care of myself truly, purely are to care for myself and that they are not influenced by Society (and in turn am I being gentle to myself, a social creature who is wired to want society approbation, etc.): they make me so angry. Where do we bring suit to end this cultural conservatorship? Imagine the freedom to just look outside and think, "a walk would feel nice on this uncharacteristically crisp Texas day, I'm lacing up the shoes." That seems so simple, and yet.
*Here's one of those knots! I'm doing these at least 4 days a week on the advice of the nutritionist I've been working with to help attain some lifting goals, which would be easier to hit if my body fat percentage was lower. Objectively this makes sense, but I resent this whole idea. The kicker is I actually enjoy a stupid little walk. I'm going to follow this advice for a month out of pure spite (and because maybe this is a good habit) to prove that my body just doesn't work that way. Will I be a weird mix of excited and furious if this somehow moves the needle? YEP. YEPPITY YEP.
I could not WAIT to get my pre-ordered copy of her book. I finished it the day it arrived. And it made me so, so sad.
I truly hope she gets the peace and contentment she so richly deserves, but I fear it won't happen.
In recent pictures she looks like a deer caught in the headlights; she knows she has to 'perform' for the camera to promote her memoir, but she has no trust in the world. And who can blame her? Why WOULD she have any trust in a world that used her up and spit her out so callously?
I have nothing but good wishes for her future. I hope she is able to get the help she will need to overcome her lifetime of betrayal and abuse. Because she for damn sure deserves it.
This whole piece is incredibly powerful. We were in the early stages of the internet and social media and she suffered for it. Women have always been persecuted for being “too much,” but she was on display all the time, and was told that was how it had to be. She didn’t know she had another (or any other) choice.
No... I follow her on Instagram. She’s ok, but so, so damaged by what has happened to her. Everything says « please like me ». Getting screwed over by her last husband was really no surprise, she’s vulnerable because she’s been effectively kept prisoner like a performing monkey for most of her life.
I think the constant criticism when she was hardly more than a kid has left permanent damage. You look back at the interviews of her and wonder how the hell that was allowed to happen.
It’s such a shame, she’s clearly so talented, you look at Beyoncé and Taylor Swift - she could have been that, but the 90s/early 00s were all about treating famous women like disposable toys.
I think it's really valuable to think about how harshly we judge her and why that's necessary. Like in your comment, I hear you comparing her to a performing monkey and I find that a fascinating way to talk about a person.
Exactly. It’s insane to think that was considered « ok ». But nobody thought anything of it because she was such a good performer. How can you expect someone to be mentally balanced after spending the majority of their life in that kind of existence.
It’s kind of how K-Pop is now, their whole existence is the band and they have roles to play, it’s a constant performance.
I often think about the "Leave Britney alone!" video and how that person also got dragged heavily but also...like, yes. Could we not, as a culture, think we own famous people or that when someone is famous that means they *should expect* abuse?
We are obsessed with the freedom of this woman (not wrongly) yet I can’t say I know any woman that lives free of the (insane) strict social pressures that their culture places on their gender. Perhaps we (humans) should focus on freeing ourselves from the poison of the patriarchy as much as Britney.
It's so sad, and it's especially nuts because by any professional or cultural measure she's an overwhelming, iconic success. It's like she was forced to build her own prison, and we enjoyed watching her do it.
I've always seen some of the criticism of Britney Spears as class-based, coming out of the usual cultural anxiety about how young women were/are disporting themselves, but in this case aimed at a young woman who had literally no social defenses and was an easy target.
As Indian philosopher Krishnamurti said - “You think you’re thinking your thoughts. You are not. You are thinking the culture’s thoughts.”
I hadn’t realized my husband and Britney Spears are the same age, I am 5 years younger than her which felt like a a very wide gap when she made her debut when I was 11.
I remember the Gimme More performance bc my sister’s roommate said she didn’t look fit, and she shouldn’t be wearing that type of outfit. This woman was and is still very thin even after having two kids 17 years later. My sister and I defended Britney and said she should wear whatever she wants and we thought she looked great! we also were very judgmental when she had the public meltdown in early 2008, thank you for the Craig Ferguson discussion. She deserved more then and now.