Looking forward to This American Ex-Wife, ordered through Blue Bicycle Books (Charleston, SC) and Bookshop.com!
Lyz, you absolutely nail this. My husband's French was superb. He'd spent his junior year at the Sorbonne, after all. I'd learned most of my French in an rural upstate central school. He teased me mercilessly about my accent. Fast very forward. I am the only American in a 3-hour meeting with mostly non-English-speaking officials at the French Ministry of Justice. They have no problem with my French. Once I have to ask an English-speaking counterpart to confirm if I have the correct French word for something. Please note: in 3 hours, once only. Back here, about then, I am chatting at a funeral with (former) husband's exceedingly nice second wife. She mentions that he teases her because she doesn't know Latin and Greek, like I do. Voila! Nothing I could have done would ever have satisfied him! In that instant I was light, freed suddenly from a nagging load that I never suspected I'd been carrying.
Thank you for explaining this movie, because I've seen clips and was instinctually revolted, honestly, but now I know why. I am SO TIRED of the male gaze. It coats my skin like an oil slick and is equally suffocating. I want women's gaze, women's stories, women's mess and complications and glory. I think it would take the rest of my lifetime of nothing but those stories to even begin to feel washed clean.
*Also, YES, all women who identify as women are women. THE END.
If I may add to this, I note that while as a man I don't have the same visceral reaction to the male gaze because I've never experienced being on the receiving end of it, I do tend to find it dull. Men have had infinitely more opportunities to tell their stories throughout human history than women have, so there's not as much new under the sun. I usually find women's perspectives to be more illuminating, and I am grateful that women are getting more opportunities to create films and series and I have found they are always worth seeking out. All of which is to say I applaud your comment.
Yes, same response over here! Honestly as soon as I heard that they gave her a baby's brain (her own dead baby's brain, I think???) I was like, absolutely not.
The myth of Pygmalion is new to me and is so interesting. It also explains the title of Shaw's Pygmalion. Thank you for educating me. I have been angered by the disclosure and faux outrage over Fani Willis hiring a prosecutor with whom she has a sexual relationship. The mainstream media has jumped all over this story. I believe this speaks to your Pygmalion reality. Here is a woman who is powerful. She is one of the best prosecutors in the U.S. and had risen to a pinnacle in her career. She is not afraid of the patriarchy and its dufus leader, trump. So how do you attack her? Not on her professional behavior because that is too hard. You go after her sexual behavior. She is not Barbie or some virginal archetype. What does the convicted sexual offender and his water carriers do? Attack her sexuality. Humiliate her personally. Shame her publicly. Put her back in her place. That happens to most powerful, outspoken women. This country and most of the world cannot seem to shake off the Pygmalion syndrome. It doesn't help that the media jump right on board and give this tired and ridiculous storyline gravitas if only with the unremitting attention paid to it.
I was married more than once (WHY), but after my divorce on December 6, 1996 I decided that I would absolutely never get married again, nor would I live with another man--DONE. I did date after that, but it was never anything long-term, not because I was "too picky" as the men seemed to think, but because I could see where it was going as clear as if I had magical powers. I have NEVER been sorry. NEVER.
My formative years were the 1970s, and I remember women and girls (including myself at times) twisting ourselves to be "one of the guys" for approval. I believe the prevailing success for women ideology was to act like a man in order to succeed like a man, but it was and is a trap. I also remember my mom, a true early user of the pill, a working mom, and all that entails, making fun of feminists. Honestly, the 2nd wavers were a lot, but somehow with all of that my mom still raised a feminist, albeit with baggage. And I still ended up in an abusive relationship where I had to contort myself to be who he wanted. I can't begin to describe how difficult it is to just be who you are as a woman. And now, with the female empowerment industry that is corporate driven and not based in real, human actualization - we have more layers of other people's ideas about who and what we should be. Thanks for the heads up about this movie. I may still watch it.
I loved this newsletter. I live for spoilers! It saves me so much time. I’m never going to watch that movie. I also don’t watch slave movies (Amritsar, 12 years a slave, even The Help) I did read Pygmalion and of course I watched “My Fair Lady”.
This is the “learning oppressor genre”. The Land God, Master of rhetoric Universe, Creator, oppressor oppresses. The oppressee suffers but manages to shows their humanity in which the oppressor is only humbled but there are no real consequences and often it’s a life of PTSD and struggle for the oppressee. My Fair Lady is really horrible - she had choices but voluntarily goes back to the guy who thought she was a lump of clay. I remember watching it and “The Sound of Music” back then and wondering why I didn’t like the movies beyond a couple of songs. I love Audrey and Julie, songs are great, the plot :UGH!
I also didn’t watch the movie “Her”. I never understood why I didn’t like these movies until I read this marvelous newsletter.
In the play Pygmalion she doesn't go back to the professor. So it's interesting that in the movie My Fair Lady that make her go back. Also, in the play Eliza talks about how they ruined her humanity. It's interesting to consider.
I’m so grateful for your voice; thank you for this essay. Thousands of years of Pygmalion-like attitudes, the creation of systems to keep women marginalized and subservient, the actual abuse of women in all its forms—is a horror I am regrettably understanding late in life. The uniquely toxic culture of evangelicalism, in which I lived for most of my life and did not have the wisdom to assess, and once I did begin to see the problems I did not have the courage to leave, is a sad distortion of a spiritual tradition where the message of its founder was the good news of liberation, especially for women and those oppressed by a culture known for its cruelty.
At least for me, salvation came through my daughter’s divorce, which ripped the facade off of our carefully curated Christian life. As Nadia Bolz-Weber replied when asked how she has come to such a place of equanimity and peace in her life: “Through a lot of pain.” And so I’m afraid it almost always must be. For me it certainly was the case that I wasn’t ready to truly reevaluate my life and beliefs until the pain visited upon me by my own actions finally made not changing intolerable.
Anyway, thank you for doing your part in ripping through the niceties of a culture that will one day have to change. There really is no going back; at least this is my belief and hope.
Um yes. "The image of subversion is sex, but it’s not even very subversive sex. ... The sex is all very pleasing and very hot to the male gaze. Cool and fun. But not subversive. Not particularly messy or revolutionary." Good Lord this movie. [shudder]
Also, it's worth noting that in the 70s a lot of women in response to the free love and the "free sex as women's power" thing was used to coerce women into sex and make their refusal seem "less liberated." I do wish the movie's screenwriters had read a little more deeply
It's so hard to break out of the patriarchal mantra drilled into me while I was growing up. At least, it is for me. I only see it in hindsight and I fear doing the same now -- seeing the damage in hindsight instead of in the moment of the happening. That's why I love your substack and your books. The uncomfortable cringe (sometimes it is more of a blow to the head) I experience when I recognize some of my own behavior in your writing is a good thing, because it leads me to question and rethink my foundations and change my behavior.
I'm curious as to what you thought of the movie Mother!?
Thank you for another thought provoking, and hopefully behavior changing, piece!
From a Liz to the Lyz: you are a genius! So true! As an independent woman (made my own money and my own life, sans men), I have found that even men who SAY they want a fully formed, independent woman REALLY want someone who is dependent on them! I have been “too independent” for most men. They don’t want to be involved with an equal - too much challenge, having to negotiate rather than impose. It helps that my looks are average - I imagine beautiful women go through even more BS when they are independent.
Overall, I have kept my self respect and independence, including having to buy off a cheating spouse to whom I was married for my most productive 10 years in law practice. Community property laws FUCK OVER independent women, I had to pay about half a million of MY MONEY that I earned by the sweat of my brow to the useless lump of meat to whom I was foolish enough to marry. Thankfully, no children for him to twist. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
In my experience some want to have their cake and eat it too - they like the perks of having a partner who is self-reliant and has an established career, good income etc but also assume that their own wants or opinions will take priority. I suspect this is one reason why there is a lot of conservative hand wringing about liberal women not wanting to marry conservative guys.
I have found that men like a self sufficient, independent woman until they realize that she doesn't NEED them. I have been in a number of relationships and, after about 3 months, the comment is "you are too independent. I don't think this is going to work if you don't change." That is when I open the door for them to find another woman to irritate.
Yes! You and Lyz (and Sheeby below and all the other commenters) are articulating things that have been an inchoate cloud in my mind. I am so happy to be past menopause and out of the hormonal stage of womanhood. Not to mention free of any male entanglement 😁
What a useful conversation! It strikes me that Athena is another woman created to males' specifications, though not those for a complaisant, undemanding, physically attractive bed partner. Zeus had a headache. It was Athena. She sprang full-grown and fully-armored from his brow. And, among other things, told men that it was OK to murder their mothers. Yes, the broader issue was arguably political: absolving ancient Greek males for supplanting matriarchy with patriarchy. But Wisdom Goddess's job, in its starkest terms, I think was OKing male violence against women.
I really enjoyed my experience of watching it and I would again. But it's NOT a feminist movie. (Not all movies are nor do they have to be for me to like them.)
It sounds like I could throw it on in the background while I do one of my internet hobbies on my laptop and have a nice little time. I love Willem Dafoe!
Looking forward to This American Ex-Wife, ordered through Blue Bicycle Books (Charleston, SC) and Bookshop.com!
Lyz, you absolutely nail this. My husband's French was superb. He'd spent his junior year at the Sorbonne, after all. I'd learned most of my French in an rural upstate central school. He teased me mercilessly about my accent. Fast very forward. I am the only American in a 3-hour meeting with mostly non-English-speaking officials at the French Ministry of Justice. They have no problem with my French. Once I have to ask an English-speaking counterpart to confirm if I have the correct French word for something. Please note: in 3 hours, once only. Back here, about then, I am chatting at a funeral with (former) husband's exceedingly nice second wife. She mentions that he teases her because she doesn't know Latin and Greek, like I do. Voila! Nothing I could have done would ever have satisfied him! In that instant I was light, freed suddenly from a nagging load that I never suspected I'd been carrying.
People that rag on other people's accents in their second/third/fourth languages are dinguses!!!!
Thank you for explaining this movie, because I've seen clips and was instinctually revolted, honestly, but now I know why. I am SO TIRED of the male gaze. It coats my skin like an oil slick and is equally suffocating. I want women's gaze, women's stories, women's mess and complications and glory. I think it would take the rest of my lifetime of nothing but those stories to even begin to feel washed clean.
*Also, YES, all women who identify as women are women. THE END.
If I may add to this, I note that while as a man I don't have the same visceral reaction to the male gaze because I've never experienced being on the receiving end of it, I do tend to find it dull. Men have had infinitely more opportunities to tell their stories throughout human history than women have, so there's not as much new under the sun. I usually find women's perspectives to be more illuminating, and I am grateful that women are getting more opportunities to create films and series and I have found they are always worth seeking out. All of which is to say I applaud your comment.
Yes, same response over here! Honestly as soon as I heard that they gave her a baby's brain (her own dead baby's brain, I think???) I was like, absolutely not.
yes!
The myth of Pygmalion is new to me and is so interesting. It also explains the title of Shaw's Pygmalion. Thank you for educating me. I have been angered by the disclosure and faux outrage over Fani Willis hiring a prosecutor with whom she has a sexual relationship. The mainstream media has jumped all over this story. I believe this speaks to your Pygmalion reality. Here is a woman who is powerful. She is one of the best prosecutors in the U.S. and had risen to a pinnacle in her career. She is not afraid of the patriarchy and its dufus leader, trump. So how do you attack her? Not on her professional behavior because that is too hard. You go after her sexual behavior. She is not Barbie or some virginal archetype. What does the convicted sexual offender and his water carriers do? Attack her sexuality. Humiliate her personally. Shame her publicly. Put her back in her place. That happens to most powerful, outspoken women. This country and most of the world cannot seem to shake off the Pygmalion syndrome. It doesn't help that the media jump right on board and give this tired and ridiculous storyline gravitas if only with the unremitting attention paid to it.
I was married more than once (WHY), but after my divorce on December 6, 1996 I decided that I would absolutely never get married again, nor would I live with another man--DONE. I did date after that, but it was never anything long-term, not because I was "too picky" as the men seemed to think, but because I could see where it was going as clear as if I had magical powers. I have NEVER been sorry. NEVER.
My formative years were the 1970s, and I remember women and girls (including myself at times) twisting ourselves to be "one of the guys" for approval. I believe the prevailing success for women ideology was to act like a man in order to succeed like a man, but it was and is a trap. I also remember my mom, a true early user of the pill, a working mom, and all that entails, making fun of feminists. Honestly, the 2nd wavers were a lot, but somehow with all of that my mom still raised a feminist, albeit with baggage. And I still ended up in an abusive relationship where I had to contort myself to be who he wanted. I can't begin to describe how difficult it is to just be who you are as a woman. And now, with the female empowerment industry that is corporate driven and not based in real, human actualization - we have more layers of other people's ideas about who and what we should be. Thanks for the heads up about this movie. I may still watch it.
I loved this newsletter. I live for spoilers! It saves me so much time. I’m never going to watch that movie. I also don’t watch slave movies (Amritsar, 12 years a slave, even The Help) I did read Pygmalion and of course I watched “My Fair Lady”.
This is the “learning oppressor genre”. The Land God, Master of rhetoric Universe, Creator, oppressor oppresses. The oppressee suffers but manages to shows their humanity in which the oppressor is only humbled but there are no real consequences and often it’s a life of PTSD and struggle for the oppressee. My Fair Lady is really horrible - she had choices but voluntarily goes back to the guy who thought she was a lump of clay. I remember watching it and “The Sound of Music” back then and wondering why I didn’t like the movies beyond a couple of songs. I love Audrey and Julie, songs are great, the plot :UGH!
I also didn’t watch the movie “Her”. I never understood why I didn’t like these movies until I read this marvelous newsletter.
In the play Pygmalion she doesn't go back to the professor. So it's interesting that in the movie My Fair Lady that make her go back. Also, in the play Eliza talks about how they ruined her humanity. It's interesting to consider.
The movie is Armistad - UGH - I hate posting on my phone - Typos!
I’m so grateful for your voice; thank you for this essay. Thousands of years of Pygmalion-like attitudes, the creation of systems to keep women marginalized and subservient, the actual abuse of women in all its forms—is a horror I am regrettably understanding late in life. The uniquely toxic culture of evangelicalism, in which I lived for most of my life and did not have the wisdom to assess, and once I did begin to see the problems I did not have the courage to leave, is a sad distortion of a spiritual tradition where the message of its founder was the good news of liberation, especially for women and those oppressed by a culture known for its cruelty.
At least for me, salvation came through my daughter’s divorce, which ripped the facade off of our carefully curated Christian life. As Nadia Bolz-Weber replied when asked how she has come to such a place of equanimity and peace in her life: “Through a lot of pain.” And so I’m afraid it almost always must be. For me it certainly was the case that I wasn’t ready to truly reevaluate my life and beliefs until the pain visited upon me by my own actions finally made not changing intolerable.
Anyway, thank you for doing your part in ripping through the niceties of a culture that will one day have to change. There really is no going back; at least this is my belief and hope.
Flame on…
Thank you for preordering and Iove the work of Nadia Bolz-Weber!
PS - I pre-ordered your book.
Um yes. "The image of subversion is sex, but it’s not even very subversive sex. ... The sex is all very pleasing and very hot to the male gaze. Cool and fun. But not subversive. Not particularly messy or revolutionary." Good Lord this movie. [shudder]
Also, it's worth noting that in the 70s a lot of women in response to the free love and the "free sex as women's power" thing was used to coerce women into sex and make their refusal seem "less liberated." I do wish the movie's screenwriters had read a little more deeply
It's so hard to break out of the patriarchal mantra drilled into me while I was growing up. At least, it is for me. I only see it in hindsight and I fear doing the same now -- seeing the damage in hindsight instead of in the moment of the happening. That's why I love your substack and your books. The uncomfortable cringe (sometimes it is more of a blow to the head) I experience when I recognize some of my own behavior in your writing is a good thing, because it leads me to question and rethink my foundations and change my behavior.
I'm curious as to what you thought of the movie Mother!?
Thank you for another thought provoking, and hopefully behavior changing, piece!
- 70-year-old white man who grew up in Iowa
From a Liz to the Lyz: you are a genius! So true! As an independent woman (made my own money and my own life, sans men), I have found that even men who SAY they want a fully formed, independent woman REALLY want someone who is dependent on them! I have been “too independent” for most men. They don’t want to be involved with an equal - too much challenge, having to negotiate rather than impose. It helps that my looks are average - I imagine beautiful women go through even more BS when they are independent.
Overall, I have kept my self respect and independence, including having to buy off a cheating spouse to whom I was married for my most productive 10 years in law practice. Community property laws FUCK OVER independent women, I had to pay about half a million of MY MONEY that I earned by the sweat of my brow to the useless lump of meat to whom I was foolish enough to marry. Thankfully, no children for him to twist. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
PS, I ordered your book! 😄😁😁😁
Keep writing, Lyz. The truth needs you.
In my experience some want to have their cake and eat it too - they like the perks of having a partner who is self-reliant and has an established career, good income etc but also assume that their own wants or opinions will take priority. I suspect this is one reason why there is a lot of conservative hand wringing about liberal women not wanting to marry conservative guys.
I have found that men like a self sufficient, independent woman until they realize that she doesn't NEED them. I have been in a number of relationships and, after about 3 months, the comment is "you are too independent. I don't think this is going to work if you don't change." That is when I open the door for them to find another woman to irritate.
Yes, if you don’t privilege their needs and wants over your own, you are selfish 🙄🙄🙄
Yes! You and Lyz (and Sheeby below and all the other commenters) are articulating things that have been an inchoate cloud in my mind. I am so happy to be past menopause and out of the hormonal stage of womanhood. Not to mention free of any male entanglement 😁
What a useful conversation! It strikes me that Athena is another woman created to males' specifications, though not those for a complaisant, undemanding, physically attractive bed partner. Zeus had a headache. It was Athena. She sprang full-grown and fully-armored from his brow. And, among other things, told men that it was OK to murder their mothers. Yes, the broader issue was arguably political: absolving ancient Greek males for supplanting matriarchy with patriarchy. But Wisdom Goddess's job, in its starkest terms, I think was OKing male violence against women.
that final footnote . . . . amen.
This movie reminds me of the "men writing women badly" accounts on TikTok..
Okay but you made this movie sound like I actually want to watch it, it just looked like a doll horror movie and I was not interested at all before
I really enjoyed my experience of watching it and I would again. But it's NOT a feminist movie. (Not all movies are nor do they have to be for me to like them.)
It sounds like I could throw it on in the background while I do one of my internet hobbies on my laptop and have a nice little time. I love Willem Dafoe!
Dayum. Preach it, Lyz.
Another winner!