What if she got close to Trump to open up a pipeline of eastern european women to "modeling agencies" in the US? She made her deal & she got what she needed.
I guess because I believe her prior life trajectory and family background would have pushed her to certain choices which make sense to me in the context of Trump's modeling university or club or whatever
She grew up pretty wealthy sounds like per the book and all the reporting on her. And part of why I wanted to write this is to help dispel the myths we keep projecting on her, like she was just poor and marrying for money or had some sort of ulterior motive or trapped or whatever else. She had a lot of choices. She chose this and she seems happy. The things people project on her I think say more about how we want to see women as victims, rather than humans with agency.
I had not realized Melania grew up wealthy. Now I'm really wondering why she married Trump? People have their reasons, but I had always found him so repulsive it's hard for me to fathom. Conned like so many others?
Is she happy? I dunno. I guess I am in my own bubble of trying to understand what my own definition of happiness is after decades of being gaslit. Reading Men Yell at Me definitely helped open my eyes as to how I was being conned.
Why not consider that she not only benefits but also has a similar personality to Trump: narcissistic, indifferent to others, authoritarian, racist. They’re compatible. End of story.
I think she is all these things! She appeared to dislike him so much I had dismissed their similarities as a reason. Assholes of a feather don't necessarily like each other though, eh?
I think she was involved in her family accessing and maintaining their wealth in communist and post-communist eastern Europe. I think she has an entrepreneurial spirit and parlayed that into a connection with Trump, her exit from the modeling world and opened a pipeline for access to eastern European models. To be clear: I think she helped find and identify women desperate to leave and made her money with Trump's modeling agency. I'm not arguing she's without agency. I'm arguing she did a great job of hiding it by playing off society's assumptions about women.
there is no evidence that would support this theory at all. but I can see why it would be easier to believe that than the reality that she chose this and she'd simply light the world on fire and not think about it for a second if it benefitted her in some way.
She doesn't smile for free because that could cause lines on her very expensive face. And people who have money generally want more. Trump and the billionaires who support him have no concept of enough.
Melania is the ultimate depiction of the cult of white womanhood. I'm not surprised her book is so terrible. I think people felt the same way about Ivanka - she was the reasonable one. But this is a woman who signed on to her father's horrible policies and gave him a veneer of ... something. It's very calculated to have these women who, like Sara Palin, represent patriarchy in such odious ways.
Never been a big fan of "you're either a victim or oppressor." Why not both/neither? Don't we all make trade-off decisions in our lives? If we want freedom to extol our own choices, shouldn't others be free to make theirs without our judgment?
Lots of attractive, young women make the choice to marry older, wealthy men. Melania certainly did that, Hard to understand why she would write a book about it - oh, wait, Trump's going to be in prison or broke soon.....
There is no evidence Melania was desperate for money. She grew up pretty wealthy. She made good money. She married this man by choice and she she gladly and willingly supports a system that has resulted in the oppression of myself and so many others. So you can bet I am going to analyze and judge the hell out of that.
Honest question, Liz: what is "the system" that oppresses you and so many others? The institution of marriage? I'm asking because I don't get it (probably obvious to you, but again, asking for clarity, not to be a troll).
BTW, nowhere did my comment imply that desperation for wealth was the reason Melania or any other woman marry wealthy older men. I accept her agency in choosing to marry (and now support) Trump.
I thought Lyz's SubStack WAS a women's study course - or at least, a candid perspective. from her and people that comment. I'm here to learn from individuals about their perspectives. OTOH, maybe it's a waste of my time - since I reject the utility of the "oppression" framework. Of course, I understand that systemic biases do exist, and those biases work against people because of gender, race, age, etc.....But once you get to "I am a victim" I tune out, because seeing oneself as either "victim" or "oppressed" excuses one from taking affirmative action to make things better. It takes away YOUR power and gives it to the "oppressor," How is that in any way useful?
I don't think it's the place of this community to provide that kind of education. And since you are here and participating, my hope you'll embark on the journey to examine your current understandings and biases. Here are the books that helped me on that journey:
- Caste, by Elizabeth Wilkinson
- Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, by Emmanual Acho
- White Fragility, by Robin Diangelo
Then you'll start to see many other resources, for example by Ibram X. Kendi, Ray Hinton.
Lyz, you are sharply and painfully correct in this piece. I wish you weren’t, so that I could have nice little fantasies about all the well-meaning people I wish existed in our country. Of course, millions do but narrow self interest is the only value for so many others. We all operate out of some degree of self-interest, but why should it be so hard to think about others at the same time?
"Women like McKinli and Melania are not voting against their self-interest, because white patriarchy is a white woman’s interest. They are beneficiaries of the powers of wealth, class, and whiteness. That is what they wish to uphold." This a thousand times. In her book "Caste", Isabel Wilkerson shares a conversation she had with someone that states exactly this about white people generally voting for white supremacy over democracy and social services, because white supremacy serves them and that is absolutely in their interest.
Melania is entirely opaque and you can project whatever you want to on that blank screen. She likes it that way. Most women who vote for Trump do it to preserve their own gilded asses.
Money is the strongest driving force for waaay too many people. If Trump will help them economically, who cares wtf else he wants to do? Yes, women will vote for Trump just to keep their MONEY. I know women who 'sold' themselves to the highest bidder, their love of luxury outweighing their love for romance. Some find both in a husband, they hope? Some give up ever having passion in their love life, enjoy the wealth and find passions acceptable to their husband/keeper. Some opt for the opulence, sneak around, and find the latter on the side...
As for why poor me, I'm the victim, Melania chose to sell herself - I really don't care, do you?
This is beautiful, hot fire, Liz! Fuck yes. "White women largely aren’t voting for Trump because they are victims of Trump or their Trumpy husbands, but because they want to. Because patriarchy benefits them. Because the gilded oblivion is nice if you can get it, if you can hide yourself away in a world where you can believe whatever you want." As a white woman, thank you for talking about this. It's so real.
Capitalism is a system of individualism, and there's no reason to think that white women are immune because nurturing and caring for others are considered female characteristics. I think it's more about the legacy of colonialism than the patriarchy which has white women voting "against their own interests". I just think they value the privilege that comes from being white in an economic system built on the free labor of slavery more than they value their rights, or lack thereof, as women. It's not so different from the suffragist movement that advocated for women's right to vote - white women's rights.
Mic drop! What a great read. The jacket says it all. She really doesn't care. Plus, with her husband on the campaign trail or golfing or handing out burgers at McDonalds, his absence is her reprieve. The door on the cage is open enough for her to peek out, then duck back in for safety.
The amount of contortion people do to make excuses for Melania is always baffling. She made her choices. She was miserable in those photos because she never thought he'd win and she realized her life was about to get a lot more complicated. She wore the jacket because she knew it would make news and she knew it would be another way she can make herself the victim.
One of my acquaintances, who previously told me she loathed Trump, has announced she's voting for him because he's better on national security. She's a white, upper middle class lady who doesn't have any queer (that she knows of) or POC children. She and her family have always been conservative. But voting for him is a choice she gets to make because the patriarchy benefits her and her family. She got hers and everyone else can rot.
The belief that Trump is better on national security, seemingly widespread, is completely without factual basis. He's terrible on national security! He wants a civil war. He wants to surrender to Russia. He arranged the surrender in Afghanistan, making no provisions at all for the women there, or the men who'd cast their lot with us.
I think this is just straight up sexism again. Many Americans do not see women as protectors/defenders. Even though the President is just a figurehead in this regard.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by figurehead here. Presidents have a number of powers they can exercise, especially in the national security area. E.g., I haven't researched it, but istm that a president has the power to order (or direct a cabinet secretary to order) sanctions against a foreign military he/she thinks has violated international law. And the power to rely on his friend Vlad's account of what has taken place in making the determination.
We're 125 years into thinking that Presidents can unilaterally terminate treaties. The North Atlantic Treaty requires a one year notice to withdraw, but obviously, during that year, a withdrawing party could ignore the thing with impunity.
I was being a bit literal. I think many people in this country do not think a woman is strong enough to face down threats. But obviously no president actually handles threats directly. Reagan did not personally free the hostages back in the day. But he got the credit. He was just a figurehead for all the work. Just like Biden doing his phone call diplomacy to get hostages out of Russia. I am sure he made calls but there was a huge team. For some reason there are people who cannot imagine a woman leading that team. I would call that bias or sexism.
If you're referring to the hostages taken at the US embassy in Iran, Reagan didn't even do that. The entire deal was made by Carter: Iran was so pissed off at him, though, that they didn't release the hostages until Reagan was inaugurated.
If you're referring to the Hezbollah hostages in Beirut in the mid-1980s, yes Reagan did authorize secretly selling weaponry to Iran to get a couple of hostages released. Which worked until it became public. Remaining hostages were release after GHWB had been in office for a bit.
Marriage is not a cage and being white does not automatically inure you to the problems in this country. However, Man or Woman voting for Trump has not been educated to think for themselves or care for themselves. They need to be victims to be relevant. They need OTHERS to be afraid of; they need to be bullies and hateful. Whether you are Melania or Liz Cheney, those that are different or will stand in your way of success must be dismissed.
This makes me feel sick. I want to feel a bond to all women because there is a way we are all in this together. But I don't understand them. I literally don't. It's like being submerged in water, needing air but choosing to drown. How can you not come up for air??? Most humans (please, I know not ALL) are given more choice and freedom than we have the courage to take - and I do mean take (it is not given). It must be taken. We live with the consequences of the freedom we take or leave on the table. A fucking gilded cage. Have any of these women noticed, most of these cages are suffering from rot - they are not gilded - and still they hand over the keys? It is so disheartening that this is still where we are.
Yes, yes, a million times yes. In 2017, I tweeted (Facebooked?) something to the effect of “Melania built her gold toilet; she can now shit in it.”
What if she got close to Trump to open up a pipeline of eastern european women to "modeling agencies" in the US? She made her deal & she got what she needed.
Why do we need to see a conspiracy where there is none? She married the man she wanted and she's happy.
I guess because I believe her prior life trajectory and family background would have pushed her to certain choices which make sense to me in the context of Trump's modeling university or club or whatever
She grew up pretty wealthy sounds like per the book and all the reporting on her. And part of why I wanted to write this is to help dispel the myths we keep projecting on her, like she was just poor and marrying for money or had some sort of ulterior motive or trapped or whatever else. She had a lot of choices. She chose this and she seems happy. The things people project on her I think say more about how we want to see women as victims, rather than humans with agency.
I had not realized Melania grew up wealthy. Now I'm really wondering why she married Trump? People have their reasons, but I had always found him so repulsive it's hard for me to fathom. Conned like so many others?
Why would she need to be conned? She has agency and choice and she chose this and she's very happy.
Is she happy? I dunno. I guess I am in my own bubble of trying to understand what my own definition of happiness is after decades of being gaslit. Reading Men Yell at Me definitely helped open my eyes as to how I was being conned.
Why not consider that she not only benefits but also has a similar personality to Trump: narcissistic, indifferent to others, authoritarian, racist. They’re compatible. End of story.
I think she is all these things! She appeared to dislike him so much I had dismissed their similarities as a reason. Assholes of a feather don't necessarily like each other though, eh?
I think she was involved in her family accessing and maintaining their wealth in communist and post-communist eastern Europe. I think she has an entrepreneurial spirit and parlayed that into a connection with Trump, her exit from the modeling world and opened a pipeline for access to eastern European models. To be clear: I think she helped find and identify women desperate to leave and made her money with Trump's modeling agency. I'm not arguing she's without agency. I'm arguing she did a great job of hiding it by playing off society's assumptions about women.
there is no evidence that would support this theory at all. but I can see why it would be easier to believe that than the reality that she chose this and she'd simply light the world on fire and not think about it for a second if it benefitted her in some way.
She doesn't smile for free because that could cause lines on her very expensive face. And people who have money generally want more. Trump and the billionaires who support him have no concept of enough.
Melania is the ultimate depiction of the cult of white womanhood. I'm not surprised her book is so terrible. I think people felt the same way about Ivanka - she was the reasonable one. But this is a woman who signed on to her father's horrible policies and gave him a veneer of ... something. It's very calculated to have these women who, like Sara Palin, represent patriarchy in such odious ways.
Ivanka has so many issues… she’s surgically altered her entire face.
She’s not the reasonable one at all. Plus she willing married a man who is/whose family is arguably more corrupt than Trump.
Never been a big fan of "you're either a victim or oppressor." Why not both/neither? Don't we all make trade-off decisions in our lives? If we want freedom to extol our own choices, shouldn't others be free to make theirs without our judgment?
Lots of attractive, young women make the choice to marry older, wealthy men. Melania certainly did that, Hard to understand why she would write a book about it - oh, wait, Trump's going to be in prison or broke soon.....
There is no evidence Melania was desperate for money. She grew up pretty wealthy. She made good money. She married this man by choice and she she gladly and willingly supports a system that has resulted in the oppression of myself and so many others. So you can bet I am going to analyze and judge the hell out of that.
Hear! Hear!
Honest question, Liz: what is "the system" that oppresses you and so many others? The institution of marriage? I'm asking because I don't get it (probably obvious to you, but again, asking for clarity, not to be a troll).
BTW, nowhere did my comment imply that desperation for wealth was the reason Melania or any other woman marry wealthy older men. I accept her agency in choosing to marry (and now support) Trump.
Maybe take a women’s studies course. Quit asking women to educate you. Do the work yourself.
I thought Lyz's SubStack WAS a women's study course - or at least, a candid perspective. from her and people that comment. I'm here to learn from individuals about their perspectives. OTOH, maybe it's a waste of my time - since I reject the utility of the "oppression" framework. Of course, I understand that systemic biases do exist, and those biases work against people because of gender, race, age, etc.....But once you get to "I am a victim" I tune out, because seeing oneself as either "victim" or "oppressed" excuses one from taking affirmative action to make things better. It takes away YOUR power and gives it to the "oppressor," How is that in any way useful?
I don't think it's the place of this community to provide that kind of education. And since you are here and participating, my hope you'll embark on the journey to examine your current understandings and biases. Here are the books that helped me on that journey:
- Caste, by Elizabeth Wilkinson
- Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, by Emmanual Acho
- White Fragility, by Robin Diangelo
Then you'll start to see many other resources, for example by Ibram X. Kendi, Ray Hinton.
Did you mean Isabel Wilkerson?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy
Lyz, you are sharply and painfully correct in this piece. I wish you weren’t, so that I could have nice little fantasies about all the well-meaning people I wish existed in our country. Of course, millions do but narrow self interest is the only value for so many others. We all operate out of some degree of self-interest, but why should it be so hard to think about others at the same time?
"Women like McKinli and Melania are not voting against their self-interest, because white patriarchy is a white woman’s interest. They are beneficiaries of the powers of wealth, class, and whiteness. That is what they wish to uphold." This a thousand times. In her book "Caste", Isabel Wilkerson shares a conversation she had with someone that states exactly this about white people generally voting for white supremacy over democracy and social services, because white supremacy serves them and that is absolutely in their interest.
Melania is entirely opaque and you can project whatever you want to on that blank screen. She likes it that way. Most women who vote for Trump do it to preserve their own gilded asses.
👏👏👏 Outstanding observations. Thank you for articulating them so clearly.
Money is the strongest driving force for waaay too many people. If Trump will help them economically, who cares wtf else he wants to do? Yes, women will vote for Trump just to keep their MONEY. I know women who 'sold' themselves to the highest bidder, their love of luxury outweighing their love for romance. Some find both in a husband, they hope? Some give up ever having passion in their love life, enjoy the wealth and find passions acceptable to their husband/keeper. Some opt for the opulence, sneak around, and find the latter on the side...
As for why poor me, I'm the victim, Melania chose to sell herself - I really don't care, do you?
She has already sold out our country.
This is beautiful, hot fire, Liz! Fuck yes. "White women largely aren’t voting for Trump because they are victims of Trump or their Trumpy husbands, but because they want to. Because patriarchy benefits them. Because the gilded oblivion is nice if you can get it, if you can hide yourself away in a world where you can believe whatever you want." As a white woman, thank you for talking about this. It's so real.
Thank you!
yep.
Capitalism is a system of individualism, and there's no reason to think that white women are immune because nurturing and caring for others are considered female characteristics. I think it's more about the legacy of colonialism than the patriarchy which has white women voting "against their own interests". I just think they value the privilege that comes from being white in an economic system built on the free labor of slavery more than they value their rights, or lack thereof, as women. It's not so different from the suffragist movement that advocated for women's right to vote - white women's rights.
Mic drop! What a great read. The jacket says it all. She really doesn't care. Plus, with her husband on the campaign trail or golfing or handing out burgers at McDonalds, his absence is her reprieve. The door on the cage is open enough for her to peek out, then duck back in for safety.
The amount of contortion people do to make excuses for Melania is always baffling. She made her choices. She was miserable in those photos because she never thought he'd win and she realized her life was about to get a lot more complicated. She wore the jacket because she knew it would make news and she knew it would be another way she can make herself the victim.
One of my acquaintances, who previously told me she loathed Trump, has announced she's voting for him because he's better on national security. She's a white, upper middle class lady who doesn't have any queer (that she knows of) or POC children. She and her family have always been conservative. But voting for him is a choice she gets to make because the patriarchy benefits her and her family. She got hers and everyone else can rot.
The belief that Trump is better on national security, seemingly widespread, is completely without factual basis. He's terrible on national security! He wants a civil war. He wants to surrender to Russia. He arranged the surrender in Afghanistan, making no provisions at all for the women there, or the men who'd cast their lot with us.
It is literally the most absurd thing. The border something something something racist.
I think this is just straight up sexism again. Many Americans do not see women as protectors/defenders. Even though the President is just a figurehead in this regard.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by figurehead here. Presidents have a number of powers they can exercise, especially in the national security area. E.g., I haven't researched it, but istm that a president has the power to order (or direct a cabinet secretary to order) sanctions against a foreign military he/she thinks has violated international law. And the power to rely on his friend Vlad's account of what has taken place in making the determination.
We're 125 years into thinking that Presidents can unilaterally terminate treaties. The North Atlantic Treaty requires a one year notice to withdraw, but obviously, during that year, a withdrawing party could ignore the thing with impunity.
I was being a bit literal. I think many people in this country do not think a woman is strong enough to face down threats. But obviously no president actually handles threats directly. Reagan did not personally free the hostages back in the day. But he got the credit. He was just a figurehead for all the work. Just like Biden doing his phone call diplomacy to get hostages out of Russia. I am sure he made calls but there was a huge team. For some reason there are people who cannot imagine a woman leading that team. I would call that bias or sexism.
If you're referring to the hostages taken at the US embassy in Iran, Reagan didn't even do that. The entire deal was made by Carter: Iran was so pissed off at him, though, that they didn't release the hostages until Reagan was inaugurated.
There's been a persistent theory that Reagan's people begged Iran *not* to release the hostages in the fall of 1980. Here's a recent review of the evidence on that: https://newrepublic.com/article/172324/its-settled-reagan-campaign-delayed-release-iranian-hostages
If you're referring to the Hezbollah hostages in Beirut in the mid-1980s, yes Reagan did authorize secretly selling weaponry to Iran to get a couple of hostages released. Which worked until it became public. Remaining hostages were release after GHWB had been in office for a bit.
Marriage is not a cage and being white does not automatically inure you to the problems in this country. However, Man or Woman voting for Trump has not been educated to think for themselves or care for themselves. They need to be victims to be relevant. They need OTHERS to be afraid of; they need to be bullies and hateful. Whether you are Melania or Liz Cheney, those that are different or will stand in your way of success must be dismissed.
This makes me feel sick. I want to feel a bond to all women because there is a way we are all in this together. But I don't understand them. I literally don't. It's like being submerged in water, needing air but choosing to drown. How can you not come up for air??? Most humans (please, I know not ALL) are given more choice and freedom than we have the courage to take - and I do mean take (it is not given). It must be taken. We live with the consequences of the freedom we take or leave on the table. A fucking gilded cage. Have any of these women noticed, most of these cages are suffering from rot - they are not gilded - and still they hand over the keys? It is so disheartening that this is still where we are.
Exactly! If people truly think Melania is some victim of her husband nowadays, that’s so pathetic.